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1836 $1 Gobrecht Dollar Original Judd-60 Die State B Die Alignment I

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 Posted 10/07/2022  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think we all wish grading was more black and white with firm, easy to understand and apply definitions, but like everything else in life, it has a lot of gray areas. On top of whether it's PR or SP (an important question) there is also the question of whether it matters if it is PR or SP.

Often the so-called branch mint proofs or presentation pieces end up in SP holders. Often I see SP as a subset of PR when there is an special circumstance associated with a striking. Sometimes new designations are created to provide a catch-all for everything that doesn't exactly fit a set bucket. I think that there is enough research and scholarship around this to describe a unique set of circumstances that touch on facets of a coin intended for circulation, that was a pattern for a long-lived design series, a special striking with special dies at the precise moment when steam coin presses were being installed for the first time.

I think that the closes analog to this issue is the 1792 half disme which is also at the confluence of pattern, presentation and circulating coinage. Those coins are usually graded as business strikes. The 1856 FEC and 1916 SLQ are also pattern-like issues that went into circulation, but those designs hardly changed as the coins went into mass production.
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 Posted 10/11/2022  01:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was looking for some info on this coin and ran across this for sale at Etsy for $25. I have to say it looks pretty close to the real thing.



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Edited by numismatic student
10/11/2022 01:55 am
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 Posted 10/11/2022  12:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately, they are getting better at their craft.
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 Posted 10/11/2022  2:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumisEd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The date font, the amputated legs of Liberty, and the pregnant eagle gives the fake away. But that said, there is a certain quality in the fake.
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 Posted 10/11/2022  4:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jimbucks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You can probably get the Etsy seller to give you a "proof of authenticity" certificate. For a few extra bucks he may even be able to put this into a fake PCGS holder for you. Wonder how many 1804 dollars he has available.
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 Posted 10/11/2022  4:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@jimbucks, I wish this was a joke, but Etsy is a publicly traded company with much more lax restrictions on selling fakes. Since you mention 1804 dollars, a seller will sell you a set of 1794-1798 5pc set for $28 and to complete your set 1798-1804 7 piece set for another $28. The rub is that they don't even look that bad. This is just not good for our hobby at all.





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 Posted 10/14/2022  6:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This came in in all its misspelled label glory. Coin looks really golden and very reflective - more than I anticipated - as I was immediately able to see the reflection of my phone on the coin clearly. Some hairlines visible in the fields. Hard to believe that this was in a museum display for the past 21 years and is now in my private hands. Let me know if you have further thoughts. Thanks!




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 Posted 10/14/2022  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am actually very happy that they didn't catch the labeling error and didn't reholder it before it came in. Getting a kick out of having such an obvious mistake on the slab.

The feather detail and sharpness throughout the eagle is really wild.
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Edited by numismatic student
10/14/2022 6:13 pm
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 Posted 10/14/2022  10:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add hokiefan_82 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
An incredible and beautiful acquisition with a fantastic pedigree, congrats!

I find the label spelling error quite hilarious - while I've seen many goofs on TPG labels over the years, you would think on a coin like this they would have double and triple checked the label and then checked it again!
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 Posted 10/15/2022  12:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SpeedDemonND to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Congrats on the acquisition. The typo on the label surely is hilarious.
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 Posted 10/15/2022  02:20 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just saw this thread and PR 64 was my initial thought when I saw the 1st pictures. It looks to be a touch conservatively graded which is as it should be.
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