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 Replies: 19 / Views: 1,300 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
https://www.error-ref.com/counterclash_type_i/ Thanks to [SPP] to put me on track to attribute this coin properly. Found a few fresh ones the other day and managed to take a great picture of the OOs to put you in the eye piece of the microscope what I see. Note the G in REGINA as if there's an anomaly there too with the G right in the middle of it. When you have a direct die clash the 00s should be below the Queens jaw. There was movement in the die [floating] and the die clash ended up higher to the nose. There is a possibility that the die clash happened a few times floating.[ my thought] I borrowed the picture [1990] from the french site [ thanks Castor with your picture to help] were the die clash OOs should have been from the 2003 date. What puzzled me in the passed was I seen different clashed of this coin in a different area in front of the queen what other collectors found. If you have a different clash please post it here to compare and share. I passed on the link of die clashes, very interesting indeed.   Edited by chadcoins
01/18/2023 11:15 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
298 Posts |
Hi chadcoins   Here is another 1˘ 2003 P "Ghost date" with the mark in a different place of your coin. At last 3 numicanada members have found this coin. 2003 is the year of the gost for the 1˘    |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
Caster what a fantastic job you did in your presentation!! This really makes this an interesting clash. And yes you can [must] use my picture on the French Site for everyone to share for reference.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
So we for sure have a #1 and #2 variety of the die clash date locations.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
As I suspected some other die clash marks on this coin. None at all on the Reverse. Maple leaf behind the Queens head dont line up with over lay pictures looks more like when the coin was first clashed.   |
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Valued Member
Canada
202 Posts |
The overlay presented by Castor doesn't explain all signatures observed by Chadcoins on his coin. We do not need to flip the reverse image. On the following overlay we can explain the small loop just behind the G of Regina. We explain the Mapple leaf under the crown and we explain the A between DG. So I think the counter clash occured with a previous struck coin, well centered with rotation in the stricking chamber, probably with an overlapping planchet to increase the stricking pressure. With this configuration is it possible to damage the Hammer Die? The coin is soft compared to the Die...  Edited by SP67
01/23/2023 11:50 am
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Valued Member
Canada
219 Posts |
I know virtually nothing about weird strike errors, but if SP is right, is it possible it was actually a struck coin that flipped in the collar and then got struck again hard enough or enough times to mostly obliterate the previous strike? So you could still see the ghost of the date and a few other things appearing almost like a die clash, but basically nothing else? I know when you look at the 1967 coins that are double struck they didn't strike hard enough to do that but maybe by 2003 the strike pressure was hard enough? I know that's not what SP is suggesting, but it seems like a slightly plausible explanation. :)
Keep in mind I know nothing about this, I'm just looking at the pictures. :)
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
Thanks SP67, I was trying to figure out how to do that image and you nailed it!! This post is all about the science of that strike and the questions that go with it. What we need now is a closer examination of the Numicanada coin what visible die clashes are on that coin for the record. You really have to look for them. Thanks for your input.
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Valued Member
Canada
202 Posts |
Chadcoins, I think we have progress today. Now we have to figure out how a coin with a flip in collar second strike can mark the Hammer Die. As I said, if there is a second planchet overlapping the coin, maybe. We need to find other option if there is. I have handy the second counter clash presented by Castor. So the previously presented overlay doesn't fit. After a second look of my coin I found other faint signatures at the left of the Queen similar to your coin. So my new overlay will fit better but with different clocking similar to this picture. For sure, something strange occured during the 2003 , with the production of a few counter clash configuration but with different Die sets. I'm pretty active on Numicanada. So, over the next few weeks I will work the update the knowledge on this coin. Overlay for the counter clash #2 presented on Numicanada.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
Perfect your looking closer at the #2 die set. There's definitely markers there some were. Extremally hard to photo!!
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Valued Member
Canada
202 Posts |
You'r right Chadcoins. Quite hard to grab picture. Very faint signatures...
On the clash #2, I can see with my magnifier and a good light source the outline of the Maple leave and the outeline of the 1 going through the E of Elizabeth. I've never notices these marks before today !
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Valued Member
Canada
202 Posts |
I just read the discussion about that coin on numicanada. SPP-Ottawa did an intervention and he confirmed the the counter clash (ref in French) https://numicanada.com/forum/viewto...p=no#p166866That confirms that the second clash is from a previous reverse brockage. He mentionned that the steel core of the planchet is hard enough to damage a die. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
I didn't realize this was discussed on the French site years ago. Been away from coins for a long time. I managed to translate and read the posts and there seems to be a few variations of the counter clash. I get it now how this happened. Didn't want to re invent the wheel here but I think many learnt a few things in rediscussing this coin for both coin site members.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
For those of you that want to follow up on the discussion go to page 10 on the French site.
To SP67 - were not done yet on this topic, I was wondering if your self or know of someone that has the Numicanada variety. I'm offering if someone could send me the #2 coin but it has to be in a 2 x 2 that I can open it and take the pictures of it. We need good micro picture of that coin like we did here with the other one. Macro with a camera just don't cut it to do this coin.Then the over lays and coin markers can be documented. I would sure like to get this coin in hand to do this. Then the science of this coin would be complete.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2072 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
685 Posts |
I was just wondering if the 2003P chamber planchet ever found that caused this variety.
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Replies: 19 / Views: 1,300 |
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Posted 01/19/2023 11:44 pm
