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1963-D Lincoln Been Searching For A MS-66 For A While Help Grade

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 357Next Topic  
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 Posted 01/24/2023  8:51 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Message




Does this one have a legit shot at 66?
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 Posted 01/24/2023  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Earle42 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The reality is that since the grading companies use absolutely no legitimate scientific and repeatable standard for grading, there is no way to tell an exact grade on a coin.
There is no such thing in the present system. This is why people can break a coin out of a slab and gamble the money to send it in hoping on a better grade.

The companies developed a system in the 90s for grading that they said would give the one true grade of a coin. But then they went back to the, as they called it when marketing the new system, inferior system containing human error in it. Likely the reason was a business decision b/c the very profitable re-slabbing business would stop if they gave an actual grade.

Another thing is that the companies keep track of all the "money-grade-level" slabs out there. The less of these uber-grades they allow onto the market, the more prices go up for the uber-graded slabs already out there. The result means more collectors wanting to get that one uber-grade will gamble/send in more coins trying to get an uber-grade.


Remember these are businesses. They exist, like any other business, by going where the money takes them.

So even if you have an example of what typically can be found in MS66 slabs, there is no way to know for sure what will be put onto the slab. This is why when you see videos of dealers getting back coins, they always have a lot they do not agree with. No science...no predictability.
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Download and read: Grading the graders
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 Posted 01/24/2023  10:19 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add captainkurt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I really don't see any flaws. I can get nit picky with something on the cheek and over by the date but otherwise nothing of note. What concerns me is the strike detail. I don't know much about die states for any cents so take it with a grain of salt. Hair, beard, stairs, and coat seem a bit lacking in detail. Again this series is not my forte. You would know more than me, especially coin in hand.
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 Posted 01/25/2023  05:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see a lot of die polishing lines obverse and reverse. I do not think a MS66 coin would have such a LDS.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 01/25/2023  09:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfrog to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think MS-66 easily.
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 Posted 01/25/2023  10:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the strike on this is typical for a 63D. I found several at 66 and 66+ that are similar and several 66's that are not as nice as this one.

with these 60's memorials you just cant look at what looks like marks, scratches etc. as they may be die/strike related. thats the case here.

a few little marks on the cheekbone and a little flatness which is strike related. rest of obv looks pretty good. the reverse is really nice. the steps are better than any 66 I could find. below is just one example of a PCGS 66. the problem with this year is that you need a 67. 66's are not going to cut it. PCGS only shows 4 at that grade

those steps are very common in fact better than most of the 66's I could find. I think you have a 66+RD coin the chances of a 67 a very slim but I doubt you would ever find one better



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 Posted 01/25/2023  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I see a lot of die polishing lines obverse and reverse. I do not think a MS66 coin would have such a LDS.
John1


Hey John , Is it your opinion that polishing marks are distracting? As much as I am trying to get better, I still have a ways to go. I read over and over that anything die related is not supposed to affect the grade.
That may be hogwash though! I respect your opinion. It's so hard to find a good one in this year. PCGS is funny about these things I have not submitted yet just narrowing down my choices. Thanks for helping.
Pillar of the Community
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829 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2023  11:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The reality is that since the grading companies use absolutely no legitimate scientific and repeatable standard for grading, there is no way to tell an exact grade on a coin.
There is no such thing in the present system. This is why people can break a coin out of a slab and gamble the money to send it in hoping on a better grade.

The companies developed a system in the 90s for grading that they said would give the one true grade of a coin. But then they went back to the, as they called it when marketing the new system, inferior system containing human error in it. Likely the reason was a business decision b/c the very profitable re-slabbing business would stop if they gave an actual grade.

Another thing is that the companies keep track of all the "money-grade-level" slabs out there. The less of these uber-grades they allow onto the market, the more prices go up for the uber-graded slabs already out there. The result means more collectors wanting to get that one uber-grade will gamble/send in more coins trying to get an uber-grade.


Remember these are businesses. They exist, like any other business, by going where the money takes them.

So even if you have an example of what typically can be found in MS66 slabs, there is no way to know for sure what will be put onto the slab. This is why when you see videos of dealers getting back coins, they always have a lot they do not agree with. No science...no predictability.


How right you are. You have summed it up perfectly!
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 Posted 01/25/2023  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
EZ 66, shot at 67 but we all know how they hold those pops down.
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 Posted 01/25/2023  12:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add IndianGoldEagle to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
MS-65RD, possibly a 66.
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 Posted 01/25/2023  2:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I read over and over that anything die related is not supposed to affect the grade.

It may not affect the "technical" grade but IMHO it negatively affects the eye appeal.As you know I am not good at grading but MS65 at best.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 01/25/2023  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John1 - just curious how you would grade the PCGS example I posted that graded 66. in fact if you look at most of the 66's there are similar issues all die related and they dont seem to affect their grade.

i agree from an eye appeal point it doesn't help and maybe it would affect value but imo not grade
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 Posted 01/25/2023  3:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As I have said,I am not good at grading. The PCGS example looks very weakly struck,mushy if you will. I do not understand how they could grade it the way they did. If everything was the same but the date, would they still grade it with the same grade? I would not want that in my collection,WADR.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 01/26/2023  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
The PCGS example looks very weakly struck, mushy if you will. I do not understand how they could grade it the way they did. If everything was the same but the date, would they still grade it with the same grade? I


i see where you are coming from John however these memorials from the 60's were not really well struck up and since millions of them were minted these dies were used exhaustively which led to the issues we see. the EDS coins were the better struck coins but remember that no one really thought to stash them away as they were so common so finding one today that is well struck is why, in the case of 63D cents, if you can find one in MS67 PCGS lists the coin at $14,500.

TPG's take this into consideration when grading. keep in mind that these are how they left the mint. the OP's coin is an exceptional coin for the year and as I stated previously I believe it would come in at 66+RD. they are very stingy when it comes to the 67 grade and this one is really close but they tend to protect those top pop's

heres how many PCGS has graded in the higher grades
MS65+ - 10
MS66 - 292
MS66+ - 17
MS67 - 4
nothing higher
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 Posted 01/26/2023  3:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check out eBay and eBay sold,it's interesting.
John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
Searched 6.5 +/- Million Cents Since 1971
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 Posted 01/26/2023  8:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add grospoisson to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
EZ 66, shot at 67 but we all know how they hold those pops down.


Hey Thad this is one I tried to conserve myself. I followed your instructions or at least I thought I did. The coin improved some but not nearly as well as you can do it.
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