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 Replies: 17 / Views: 650 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3387 Posts |
Seller's images. I'm curious why ANACS gave this MS60. If they determined it was uncirculated, it doesn't seem to have enough dings to warrant the 60 grade. It makes me wonder if they net graded it, but if so, for what reason?  |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
10554 Posts |
ANACS used to net grade any Unc coin with issues to net MS60
That looks Unc Details to me, overdipped, starting to retone, but zero luster
Longhorn Coins & Exonumia Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4536 Posts |
 ANACS assigns an MS-60 grade to any uncirculated coins that are detailed, regardless of the extent of marks on the coin. This one does look overdipped. Was it labeled details from cleaning?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
81377 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
15239 Posts |
its lucky to be in a straight holder. if it was NGC or PCGS it would probably be UNC details (Cleaned)
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1749 Posts |
I agree, this has zero chance of making it in a straight holder nowadays.
Lucky to be in an ms60.
You realize when you know how to think, it empowers you far beyond those who know only what to think.
-Neil deGrasse Tyson
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Pillar of the Community
Topic StarterUnited States
3387 Posts |
No, it's not labeled as a Details coin. It's in the most recent yellow slab type, well past their "net grade" era. The cert is 1360643, so it was graded quite a while ago. I agree that they give MS60 Details as the equivalent of UNC Details at the other TPGs, but this coin is straight-graded. I suppose perhaps they saw it as overdipped, or maybe there's just more marks than the images show. It's tedious to find ANACS MS60 on Heritage in yellow slabs that aren't Details but there are some. Most just seem to be heavily banged up. It's received strong bids. I was considering trying for it, but it's a bit high now. I guess someone doesn't think it's a problem coin.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
15239 Posts |
and...the reason you buy the coin and not the holder.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10554 Posts |
ANACS still net grades, they just no longer list it as such on the holder.
Longhorn Coins & Exonumia Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
MS60 and 61 are recognized grades yet seem to find resistance and sometimes a " why 60 must be an issue" I've owned several 60 - 61 coins in all 3 TPG slabs and none were cleaned they were just not quite MS-62 and better than AU58. I had an 1909 S vdb PCGS 61 picked up at GC in 2018, gave it a careful acetone rinse and it went 62 in an NGC re-submit. On Barbers I personally have no problems with 60-61 coins GC had one go for sizeable money over full retail last week 200 something over my max bid. MS-60 can be an oppoutunity, a poofed up AU-58, or an ugly MS-62 sometimes a mix of all 3. Without the MS-60 grade wheres the start the finish from circulated to uncirculated. Their a novelty and like a good thrashing every once while. I stand firm MS-60 is and will be a grade. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
paralyze what are you basing your statement on? I deep dive into ex grader insider stories and results are silent. There is freakishly an information big hole when you search: ex graders present graders tricks of trade life grading coins etc. etc. Employment disclosure statement? maybe un written rules? maybe but from sources I have (ANACS Colorado Springs Co.) They "don't net grade any longer". Is there something I'm not aware of?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
kbbpll heres a picture of the 1898 S in MS61 that went for almost 800 bucks. Note similarities between your coin and this one. Picture courtesy of GreatCollections.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Topic StarterUnited States
3387 Posts |
That one is PCGS, sold for $890 with BP (so are they net grading too?). The one I posted sold for $509 with BP, about $100 more than I was willing to spend. It could be that the images aren't good enough to say anything for sure. The MS61 looks like it might have a lot of small nicks.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10554 Posts |
Quote:
paralyze what are you basing your statement on? I deep dive into ex grader insider stories and results are silent. There is freakishly an information big hole when you search: ex graders present graders tricks of trade life grading coins etc. etc. Employment disclosure statement? maybe un written rules? maybe but from sources I have (ANACS Colorado Springs Co.) They "don't net grade any longer". Is there something I'm not aware of? I would assume (but do not know) that there are non-disclosure agreements in force. As previously stated, in years past ANACS used to include wording at times indicating that a coin had been net graded. I don't have one of the slabs in inventory at the moment. This was back during the small white holder days but after the transition from the ANA holder. Currently, none of the 3 major TPG's that I know of still use net grading actually on the label, but I have seen many occasions where coins are net graded anyway -- Bust half dollars are a good place to look if you want to see this in action, and Liberty Seated coinage to some extent. This is often found to happen on coins which have been dipped/cleaned and retoned, but where the TPG cannot directly prove that is the case. Examples from my personal collection include an 1861 half dollar with high AU sharpness but retoned over an old cleaning = XF45 on the holder (NGC); 1894-O Morgan dollar, high AU sharpness, retoned = XF45 (PCGS); 1856 quarter, dipped, retoned (but pretty rainbow and full of luster), AU58/MS62 slider, net graded down to AU50 by PCGS. Those are all full grade coins (no details designation.) Net grading is not an "official policy" anymore, but it definitely happens. Personally, I miss it, and wish they'd bring it back, and not just ANACS. I still net grade all of my raw copper.
Longhorn Coins & Exonumia Member ANA - EAC - TNA - SSDC - CCT #890 "Most of the things worth doing in the world had been declared impossible before they were done." -- Louis D. Brandeis |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
paralyze I stand corrected thank you. Interestingly ANACS has a designation called "cleaned and retoned" that seems like a fancy way of saying "cleaned net grade". I recently saw an obscure vedio how the TPG's easily distinguish any type of cleaning with high resolution and by the differences in metal flow between an unaltered coin and a cleaned one. The vedio explained it precisely by explaining normal mint state coins metal flow is like little sharp pointed mountain tips, a cleaned coin like little mountain points folded over on the tip. Now I know why some Barber's I've sent in last several years that looked absoloute MS to me came back UNC cleaned. Now I can wrap my head around these MS-60's more clearly. |
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Moderator
United States
16602 Posts |
Dipping in general will subdue if not eliminate any cartwheel appearance.
swcoin.ecrater.com
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Replies: 17 / Views: 650 |
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Posted 05/28/2023 02:12 am
