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 Replies: 45 / Views: 2,740 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4347 Posts |
Thanks, Ballyhoo. To me, one of the great things about this hobby in general is that there are so many specialty avenues to explore. After looking through pocket change as a kid, I got into Civil War tokens; this, during the centennial years. Then, I got into Hard Times tokens, then merchant, regional and sutler tokens, then type coins, early coppers, then error coins, collecting obsolete currency, national currency, and lastly, the counterstamps. I've been fortunate to make great finds in every category. To my experience, the more avenues a collector travels and studies, the better his odds of making great acquisitions. Why linger on one or two categories when there's a virtual smorgasbord to be had?  Edited by ExoGuy
11/12/2023 10:36 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4347 Posts |
One of these Schiller counterstamps is currently getting bids in a private auction. The host coin is in better condition than my specimen, but the stampings are comparable. With 16 days to go, the bidding is currently more than twice what I paid. Here's a link to the auction .... https://civilwartokens.com/Event/Lo...il-War-token |
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New Member
United States
16 Posts |
Very interesting coin! I have a passing interest in counterstamped coins - mainly the "Why" of their existences, so the history on this piece is fascinating. Though you mention only about a dozen or so still exist, do you have any relative idea how many might have been produced?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4347 Posts |
Quote:
.... do you have any relative idea how many might have been produced? The short answer is "no." Judging from auction records and TPG records, a dozen or so have surfaced in the past twenty years. One never knows though, On occasion, small groups of previously rare Civil War era tokens have surfaced. My Schiller c/s isn't the only dug piece to have surfaced. Perhaps, some metal detectorists will find a few more in the years ahead! 
Edited by ExoGuy
11/17/2023 7:05 pm
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New Member
United States
16 Posts |
I wouldn't figure as such, but I had to ask. Even most "modern" counterstamped pieces don't seem to account for production numbers. I could care less what year(s) of coins they were stamped on, but I still like to know how many of the type might have been produced, if possible.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4347 Posts |
Quote:
I still like to know how many of the type might have been produced, if possible. Modern day counterstampers like Mel Wacks did keep records of coins they punchmarked. Having studied many hundreds of 19th century c/s's for over forty years now, I've yet to encounter anyone back then publishing numbers issued. Take note that of the 2,700+ c/s's in my collection, just about three-quarters of them have estimated population numbers of under twenty recorded specimens. Brunk and Rulau collected and published the dates of coins that were stamped by early merchants; these, as provided by a few hundred or so contributors, prior to 2006. Others have since been found. I've one c/s collector friend who's been chronicling new finds, updating, in effect, Brunk's work. He passes that info along to the Newman Numismatic Portal. I've reported my many discovery pieces, those unlisted by Brunk and/or Rulau, to him. That said this is modest effort. Perhaps, there will someday in the future be a concerted effort to compile a census. Meanwhile, serious collectors of this genre will be corralling all the pieces that surface in the marketplace. A great many of the better c/s's, like these Schiller pieces, do not seem to often trade hands. Hopefully, when they do, the buyers will pass along their provenance to the next owner, thereby assisting any future census effort.
Edited by ExoGuy
11/17/2023 11:17 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4347 Posts |
With but two days to go, bidding is at $3,500 for this better details Schiller c/s. Akin to my specimen, the granular surfaces suggest it may also have been a ground find. The values realized by these pieces equates to the attached history. Here's a link to the auction .... https://www.civilwartokens.com/Even...il-War-tokenBTW, in the months ahead, I expect to post a recent find that's most likely to become listed as a Confederate Civil War token. Meanwhile, I'm awaiting word from the Civil War Token Society as to whether this piece will officially be included in the merchant series. A member-committee will meet to determine this.  Edited by ExoGuy
12/01/2023 8:56 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
94367 Posts |
Wow, stunned at those auction bids!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4347 Posts |
Quote:
Wow, stunned at those auction bids! I suspect that any coin collector would be; this, given the host coin's low grade and value. I started collecting Civil War tokens about sixty years ago, during the centennial years of the great conflict. Very few merchant issues were known to have emanated from Confederate states, and that remains largely true to present times; this, but for these Schiller counterstamps. Many a CW token collector wants to add a Confederate issue to his collection. Another desirable aspect of these Schiller pieces is that they are the only Louisiana merchant "tokens" proven to have been issued during the war years. Many CW collectors want to acquire an example from each known state, As such, there are many collectors vying for this rare state, what with only about a dozen known pieces that infrequently appear at auction. Then too, there are counterstamp collectors who find this issue to be quite desirable as well. Then, along comes a collector like me who cherishes the best of both genres, counterstamps and CW tokens. Understanding these facets, the cross-collector appeal, one can well appreciate the true rarity of these pieces. Someday, the values of these pieces may well rise into five figures.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1099 Posts |
I had a cwt collector show up to a friends house with a bunch of numismatic things. I looked into his box and this token was the first thing I picked up asking about it. He looked at me ask to wonder why that and not the other dozens of things he had brought having only been told that I collected coins. I told him that I collected early American exonumia and loved counterstamps. We spent the better part of the afternoon sharing stories about the hobby. It turned out he was John Ostendorf and was working to write an updated civil war store card book. It makes sense that Hayden is offering the piece and if they declare this a confederate token I can only imagine what that does to the value. Just look at those Lovett pieces.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4347 Posts |
@cointagous .... John & Steve are two of the top exonumia personalities in the country. Great guys, too! Quote:
.... and if they declare this a confederate token I can only imagine what that does to the value.
These Schiller counterstamps have been listed as CW tokens for some years now. Louisiana was a Confederate state, and Schiller was a member of the local militia. To clarify, I was talking about another Confederate c/s when I mentioned the the CW token committee. Edited by ExoGuy
12/02/2023 01:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
With that kind of value have you seen fakes of these?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4347 Posts |
@ kbbpll .... No, I've not seen any fakes of this issue. I do believe that these would be quite difficult and costly to fake. The font and exact size of the known Schiller c/s's would have to be matched, perfectly. I have seen one crude, easily discernable fake of the VOTE THE LAND FREE c/s. Genuine pieces bearing that c/s typically fetch around $200 on early large cents but more on better host coins. On a related note, there was a seller on ebay a few years ago who was peddling C.S.A. c/s's, created with individual letter punches. Most were on Indian cents and Liberty Seated coins. To my knowledge, the C.S.A. never utilized such stampings. In effect, these were fantasy pieces that the seller represented were from a hoard. Edited by ExoGuy
12/02/2023 01:58 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4347 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
954 Posts |
Just love reading about this history. It's a huge part of what makes this hobby so interesting. Thanks to all who added more information to the original posting. All of this was new to me!
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Replies: 45 / Views: 2,740 |
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Posted 11/12/2023 10:32 am
