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 Replies: 15 / Views: 1,111 |
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Valued Member
Australia
106 Posts |
I sell coins and banknotes as a hobby business on ebay and have a 100% feedback rating. 99.9% of customers are great to deal with, but every now and then I meet someone really angry. Here is one example. I sold several banknotes to a buyer of varying grades, from Fine to about Extra Fine. Due to previous bad experiences, I now provide side lit photos of every banknote to show the buyer every possible imperfection in the paper. My front and back photos are lit with two cool white LED lamps on either side of the note, and that tends to wash out features such as folds and wrinkles. This problem of normal photos not showing up every imperfection in a banknote is not something limited to my photos, as many ebay listings and other auction sites have banknote photos that aren't deceptive, but aren't showing every detail either. I consider graded PCGS photos to be the gold standard for banknote photography, but I haven't managed to achieve their results. It's a fine line between making a banknote look good to attract a buyer, and so washed out that the customer is disappointed with what they actually receive when they look at the note under varying light conditions. In each of my ebay listings I include four photos, and in the description I write what the photos represent and that the side lit photo is there to show every imperfection in the banknote. But it seems some people don't look past the first photo, and don't read either. I also don't know if I'm dealing with people familiar with banknote collecting, or laypeople. If I describe a banknote as Very Good, then we know that's a very low rating. But someone might take those words literally. Anyway, here is the message I received on ebay: "I have now just looked at the last photos of every note! Wow! You sure doctored them heh! I'd appreciate you cancel the whole transaction!
I appreciate I should have paid more attention. But I've never seen this sort of manipulation in Australia.
It's up to you now.
More fool me!!"The buyer is accusing me of manipulating and doctoring the photos. Basically, they say I'm committing fraud. Here is a typical example of the photos I include in my listing. Please critique my photos and tell me where they can be better. If just 0.5% of customers are unhappy on ebay and return a banknote, then I lose my top seller status. And that's over an entire year. I'm currently at a 0.17% return rate. I apologize if this photography post is in the wrong place, but I can't find one specific to banknotes on this forum. Thank you,     |
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Moderator
 United States
72157 Posts |
Are you using a scanner to capture the images where the note looks almost pristine? The scanners will flatten crumpled noted the eliminate the creases and wrinkles (although if you look VERY close you can see the folds. but the first set of images can be misleading.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
They look pretty good to me!
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Valued Member
 Australia
106 Posts |
Hi Dearborn, All photos are taken with a Nikon D3400 DSLR and 18 to 70mm lens. Two desk lamps on either side of the banknote. Using just one lamp makes the lighting across the entire photo uneven, with one side being visibly darker. The flattening of features in the normal front and back photos is a problem, but it's a common one to many ebay listings and other auction houses. Check out this 10 pound banknote photo from an auction house near me: https://auctions.kearnsauctions.com...n-pound-noteThere is a center fold there but it can barely be seen. If the note was lit from the side then it would be very pronounced. I bet there are other wrinkles in the note, but they simply can't be seen. Edited by ClusterCoin
07/18/2024 9:48 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3932 Posts |
IMO your first photos look a bit too pristine, while the last make the note look unfavorable, probably more than it actually is. The two very different photo styles may be confusing for some of your buyers. You might want to come up with a lighting that is a compromise between the two styles, and show fewer photos for less confusion.
With coins, usually I try to take a single photo of front and rear that shows the coin's positive attributes like luster and strike, along with any negative aspects like hits and other surface issues. It's not easy to do but it gives a good impression of the coins condition. If I saw an auction where the coin was near pristine looking in one photo, and yet in another photo shows significant issues, I'd be confused and reluctant to purchase.
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.comEdited by rmpsrpms
07/18/2024 11:38 pm
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Valued Member
Australia
106 Posts |
Thank you for your comments rmpsrpms. You are right that there's a dramatic contrast between the first and last images. The first looks a little too good, while the last deliberately looks as bad as possible and shows up every slight wrinkle in maybe a too dramatic way. I started adding the side lit photo because one buyer received a Very Fine banknote and somehow expected it to be pristine based on the provided front and back photos. I have personally purchased banknotes from auctions and been disappointed with the note when I received as it was only photographed with diffuse light. I know I would have appreciated a side lit photo that showed every imperfection. I do of course add my subjective opinion on what the banknote should be graded at. If I state a banknote is Very Fine yet it has a photo that's slightly too clean, the buyer shouldn't make an assumption that the note is near uncirculated. Doubly so if they flick through the images. I have been looking on ebay for similar examples of a $10 note. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/125912987344This photo is also a little too clean. Folds can be seen, but no doubt a lot of detail is missing. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/196241585120I quite like this one. The lighting seems to work just right and doesn't wash out any detail. I would like to know how they achieved that. As for coin photography, I get pretty good results but they could always be better. Photographing a coin as it appears to the real life viewer is difficult. Are they going to be viewing it under direct LED light? Diffuse light? Outdoors on a cloudy day? All these lighting conditions have a significant impact on mint luster and general visual appeal. |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4701 Posts |
I sell low end circulated coins. I use harshly lit axial photos, even though in most cases that makes the coin look considerably less appealing than it does in-hand. That lighting style does highlight all the scratches, scuffs, and other issues on a coin. At least that way, buyers can't say that they didn't see particular surface defects. I do agree that the top images seem a bit too pristine. For a buyer to claim that they didn't look at all the images, or read the description, is a bit silly and I doubt that ebay would take their complaint seriously after such an admission. |
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
"I have now just looked at the last photos of every note!Buyer admits fault I appreciate I should have paid more attention.Buyer again admits fault. If you offer returns then go ahead,but the buyer is at fault here. John1 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5336 Posts |
I agree with @rmpsrpms. I would work on trying to find a technique that illustrates best how the note looks in hand, then include only the one set of photos. Neither of your sets of photos seem very accurate, and it leaves the buyer wondering what the note really looks like.
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Valued Member
Australia
106 Posts |
I was quite lucky in that the buyer had purchased seven banknotes, but I made a mistake in one of the listings and accidently had one photo mixed up out of the set of four. I messaged the buyer asking if they still wanted the banknote, and that's when I received the surprising reply that they had only seen the first image and not read the short but detailed description for any of them.
I have feedback of over 1500 with a 100% rating, but last year was stung with a negative rating by a buyer who was disappointed with the banknotes they received. So I added the side lit photo so that no buyer can claim I was hiding anything from them, but still people complain.
I'm going to try and further refine my lighting. Maybe change the light bulbs for ones without a diffuser, see if that makes a difference. The vast majority of my customers are happy but there's always room for improvement.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1871 Posts |
If you have an newer cell phone, maybe take pics using it. It might show what a bill looks like in hand or perhaps not, worth a try. Newer cell phones take pretty good pics.
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Moderator
United States
72157 Posts |
oops, I forgot to come back to this topic - sorry.
But there is a good conversation on how to present notes and make them look presentable with out over shining or showing every single wrinkle. There must be some middle ground somewhere.
Just make sure that you describe the note with as much detail as you can so the buyer has little 'wiggle' room to complain.
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Valued Member
United States
335 Posts |
I don't see how one could complain ... my own experience is that there are some people that are NEVER happy. I suspect this may also extend into other areas of ones life ... sorry for your distress. Hang tough !
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Valued Member
Australia
106 Posts |
I have changed the way I take photos, so hopefully customers can better see any wrinkles and creases without making the banknote look ugly using a highly angled light that confuses people. The method now is lit my a floor lamp with a standard daylight LED bulb, at an angle of about 45 degrees, as well as providing a backlit photo (which still confuses some people, and they ask me what the image is...  )   The type of light, whether it's coming in through a window, from the ceiling or from a desk lamp, of course heavily influences what a banknote looks like. I just want to give customers a fair representation that doesn't hide any details. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3932 Posts |
The recent, top photo looks very good. It shows the wrinkles and folds without accentuating them and overall the note looks how I'd expect to receive it.
Do you need to show the backlit photo? Maybe take the photo, and tell folks that a backlit photo is available if they want to see it, and send to them if they ask, but don't show it in the listing?
Contact me for photographic equipment or visit my home page at: http://macrocoins.com |
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Valued Member
Australia
106 Posts |
Quote:
Do you need to show the backlit photo? Maybe take the photo, and tell folks that a backlit photo is available if they want to see it, and send to them if they ask, but don't show it in the listing? I decided to include a backlit photo for all banknotes as it shows three things: that the banknote is not counterfeit (watermarks, etc), that it doesn't have any holes, and that there aren't any hidden stains. When I buy banknotes I always hold them up to the light. Also I was frustrated buying banknotes at a local auction house where they only provide two images taken under diffuse light. Sometimes it's really difficult to spot wrinkles and similar defects. I thought I could do better for my customers. Here is an example of a banknote I purchased at auction this year for about US$150.  It's sometimes so hard to spot all the defects when presented with an image like that. The banknote turned out to be a winner, and I got it graded AU50 with PCGS, but I have also purchased banknotes that looked good in those poor images and they turned out to have numerous defects. 
Edited by ClusterCoin
12/13/2024 9:38 pm
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Replies: 15 / Views: 1,111 |
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Posted 07/18/2024 9:41 pm
