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1811 50c Capped Bust Half Dollar O-105 R4

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numismatic student's Avatar
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 Posted 03/27/2025  11:11 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
$565. I tried attributing it but let me know whether I got it right. Thoughts? Thanks!


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panzaldi's Avatar
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17508 Posts
 Posted 03/28/2025  08:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add panzaldi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
these earlybirds always give me a headache. there may be some very slight circulation but these eyes can't see if its strike or wear when its that light. weaker strikes are so common and being able to discern strike and wear takes years of knowledge and looking at these. add to that, that most have been cleaned at some point in its life to throw a monkey wrench into the entire grading process. I've only been grading them for a decade and miss more than I hit the grade.

i like the coin overall, it has nice eye appeal. it may have had an old old cleaning but I think the coin would grade straight. some strike issues, more so on reverse.

I'm at AU58 or lower MS like MS62 due to lack of luster. I'm going to go with MS62. one note that I see regarding any wear is the high relief leaf at K8 which is not showing any signs of wear at all leading me to believe everything is strike related. if wear is going to happen I think it would show right there.

one area that could be an issue though is a possible scratch across the shield down the leg. not sure how a TPG will interpret that due to the coins age and condition. imo because the scratch is overtoned I'm betting they ignore it.
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Ploopy's Avatar
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 Posted 03/29/2025  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ploopy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU details, cleaned and probably scratched. Low AU details, like a 53.
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Fayette1800's Avatar
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 Posted 03/29/2025  1:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Fayette1800 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
AU55 great crusty one. No details as far as I can see.
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Zurie's Avatar
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 Posted 03/29/2025  1:45 pm  Show Profile   Check Zurie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Agree with O-105. I'd say AU-55, although the reverse scratch might detail it.
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 Posted 03/29/2025  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adam126402 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Funky surface toning, looks 53ish based on these pics. Lean towards straight grade regardless of scratch on the shield. Will be interesting to see pics once you have it in hand.
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psuman08's Avatar
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 Posted 04/03/2025  4:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add psuman08 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm at 53/55 again. I think it straight grades.
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numismatic student's Avatar
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 Posted 04/17/2025  9:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This one came in. Not sure that that is a scratch on the shield. Lines look raised to me under the loupe in the shield and on the feathers. Also a bunch of raised annulets on the shield.



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Edited by numismatic student
04/17/2025 9:54 pm
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 Posted 04/17/2025  10:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looked at a bunch of 1811 O-105s and I don't see this shield with annulets and what look like superimposed tailfeathers on the leg feathers and shield. Odd.
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Edited by numismatic student
04/17/2025 10:07 pm
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 Posted 04/18/2025  1:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add adam126402 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was looking at some 105 and 105a and see the blob defect in the first three or four horizontal lines on many, but not the horizontal defects that to your point look like tail feathers.

What's your take on the reverse and what look like a bunch of pin holes, most notable in the upper half of the coin across the fields and eagle?
Edited by adam126402
04/18/2025 1:13 pm
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numismatic student's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2025  2:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pinholes seem few and not visible without magnification so not really concerned. Probably rubbed against something during its 214 year life.

On the extra devices on the reverse on ther shield and leg feathers, it seems like this reverse die was somehow altered at some point If so there should be other coins with these reverse differences but haven't found one so far.
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2025  3:09 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Could these be adjustment marks?
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numismatic student's Avatar
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 Posted 04/18/2025  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Weight adjustment marks on the planchet would show as incuse file marks. These appear raised. Die scratches or clashed die transfers on the reverse die would appear raised on the coin's reverse impression. From the well-defined raised elements it looks to me more likely to have been clashed. If the die was scratched or clashed it is likely that other coins were struck with that altered die unless quality control found it right away and retired it. But in 1811, it is more likely that a marginally altered die like this one would continue in use until it failed completely.
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Edited by numismatic student
04/18/2025 9:52 pm
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BH1964's Avatar
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 Posted 04/19/2025  12:32 am  Show Profile   Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I guess they could be from an aggressively polished die?
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fortcollins's Avatar
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 Posted 04/19/2025  12:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add fortcollins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My other pondering is this. Could this be a contemporary counterfeit? If a genuine coin used to make the mold had been scratched, the scratches would transfer, but be raised on copies. That might also explain the pinholes and some of the bumps on the surface. I don't have Davignon's book, but that might be a good starting point to chase that rabbit.

EDIT: It might also explain the toning variances. If it is a contemporary counterfeit, you may have hit the jackpot here.

Edited by fortcollins
04/19/2025 12:30 pm
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 Posted 04/19/2025  12:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add numismatic student to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I suppose that is possible but that is far afield from my small knowledge of numismatics. Thanks to all for your helpful comments.
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