I Need Help With This Coin. I've Tried Other Numismatic Forums, But No Replies.

I'm new to coin collecting.
I'm guessing people think it's cleaned because of how shiny & smooth looking it looks.

Cleaning removes the outer layer of the coin, which removes a lot of dings & scratches.

Cleaning can make a very old circulated coin look like it's fresh from the Mint.

Then there's the darker toning that appears on both sides of that coin.

Cleaning would remove that darker toning.

That's probably why the people telling you it's not cleaned because it appears to have toning on it.

Toning is when the metals on the surface of the coin oxidize with the atmosphere over time, and the natural color of the coin changes to a darker color, or rainbow colors.

Sometimes if a coin is exposed to harsh chemicals, there can be rainbow color toning.

When it's darker toning such as yours, it can indicate natural toning.

I'm not sure of the whole process.

Like I said, I'm new to coin collecting.
So take my opinions with a grain of salt.

By the way.

Is the seller telling you it's an "error coin"?
Was the coin minted on the wrong planchet?
Or is it supposed to look like that near the rim of the coin, appearing to have letters and detailing cut off, as though it was minted on a planchet too small for the coin die.

..

to the Community!

Your post was moved to the appropriate forum for the proper attention.

A coin with such sharp details should show some lustre at least in protected areas. I see none -- don't pay a premium. I think you will be disappointed if you expect a straight grade from a TPG.

nwskeptic89, you should make a deal with the seller. Send it off for certification - if it's genuine you'll pay the cost and purchase it. Or just pay to have it certified with no purchase agreement - if fake, don't buy it.

1641 does not appear to be a rare date. The overall sharpness of detail seems too good to be true, and I wonder whether the coin has been tooled. Here's a typical uncirculated 1641 Gelderland daalder.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/netherland...bnail-071515

Comparing the two, I'm skeptical about the Gelderland mint's ability to strike any coin as perfectly as your example. This 1640 is the best specimen I could find in the period.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/netherland...ption-071515

Common raw daalders from this period are worth $100-200. Unless you can get this coin authenticated, that's what it's worth to me if I were a buyer.

Your coin is identical to this listing on ebay. I'd be very concerned.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2844804484...r+gelderland

I REALLY do not like the look of this coin, especially for the first reason given by @thq: an overwhelming majority of Leeuwendaalders are unevenly struck and this one looks too good to be true.

They were widely counterfeited. Recently needed to swap out a Numista photo because it was a counterfeit (and yes, sold by a reputable auction house). Furthermore, I trust the TPGs less on foreign coins than on US, UK.

As I began comparing it to other 1641s, I noticed some systematic differences:
Normally the knight's ear is fiddlehead shaped, but this one is not
Normally the beaded circle continues between the knight's helmet and its feather, but not on yours,
Normally the knight's collar is small squares (when it is visible), but this one has slanted lines.
And the little S-shaped squiggle at the end of the ribbon (around 9:00) does not show up elsewhere ...


Yes, a lot of these were minted, so there would have been many die pairs used, each prepared by hand. So, maybe this was just a die prepared by a different person (because the features I mentioned above were typical of more than one obverse die).

And, arguing in favor of this interpretation is that I was able to find two additional coins made from this obverse die, both auctioned in in 2023 at the same place, along with many other 1641s that are from different dies.

I would not spend that kind of money on such a suspicious looking coin, but I have to admit it's very attractive, and if a TPG says it's authentic ...
But I think that price is highway robbery, as pointed out by thq.

Looks too good to be true. The detail all looks too strong, as far as I can tell. My gut feeling is that it's an electrotype, but I could easily be wrong. I wouldn't buy it simply cos of the doubts it's just raised in me.

@tdziemia

The seller of the coin sent me this for comparison.

https://rngacoin.ru/rnga-data-base/...0490190.html