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1700 Or 1702 Russian Empire - Kopeck - Wire Coin

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Dearborn's Avatar
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71962 Posts
 Posted 05/15/2025  7:42 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
Just got this Russian coin and need a bit of help dating it

I bought this coin off of ebay - seller had it listed as a 1700 Russian coin. Which is what I wanted to be dated at exactly 1700. The images were not the best, so I took a chance.
But now that I have it in hand I think I got lucky (in one way) that the con I got has the full date on it, but unfortunately, I think it is a 1702 Kopeck coin.
This is what I hoped it would be:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces160762.html
But I think it is this one:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces164791.html

1700 or 1702 Russian Empire 1 Kopeck
a hammered wire coin

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Hondo Boguss's Avatar
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 Posted 05/15/2025  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Hondo Boguss to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

I got one of these a while back. Couldn't figure out the date so gave up on it.
This web site seems to be more informative than Numista:
https://kyiv2014.com/wire.html
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 05/16/2025  08:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for that link - I now have the date as 1701.

circled is the date on these coins - The trick is to find them with this area intact and readable.
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 05/16/2025  08:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I see that Numista does not have a 1701 coin - I'll have to add mine.
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2025  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
So I see that Numista does not have a 1701 coin - I'll have to add mine.
I'm not sure how you got the idea that Numista does not have a 1701 wire kopek!

The problem is actually in the opposite direction. Numista's coverage of Russian wire coinage is mainly based on the Kleshchinov-Grishin series of catalogs, which cover numerous minor die varieties (especially numerous for this period, with immense mintages of tiny coins).
[For the US collectors in the audience: this is roughly the equivalent of classifying Morgan dollars by VAM. Imagine a catalog that considered every single VAM to be a separate type; this is roughly what the Numista coverage of these kopeks looks like.]

Numista has thirty-four different listings for 1701 wire kopeks, and there's probably a few more types it can have but doesn't happen to.

I can try to figure out which variety you have (...if I manage to find enough data online), but attributing post-1700 wire kopeks is hilariously hard; approximately no one bothers with it (to such an extent that Kleshchinov and Grishin ended up making a simplified catalog for just figuring out the date, which doesn't even try to list out all the die combinations), and it honestly surprises me that Numista does.
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Spence's Avatar
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 Posted 05/17/2025  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thx for weighing in on this coin @j1m--I know that it is in your wheelhouse.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
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"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
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 Posted 05/18/2025  02:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This web site seems to be more informative than Numista:
https://kyiv2014.com/wire.html
Thank you so much for that link! Turns out they've mirrored the convenient silver-copeck website I've been using for ages before it went down: https://kyiv2014.com/copeck/index.html

With that reference [here's their 1701 listing - there are about sixty variants], I can with at least some degree of confidence assign your coin to KG 1652, i.e. Numista 162206.
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Dearborn's Avatar
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 Posted 05/18/2025  4:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks J1M! Numista apparently lists them a bit different. I could not find it - but now I have a different problem - matching mine up to one of the many you have in that link
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 Posted 05/19/2025  04:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I could not find it - but now I have a different problem - matching mine up to one of the many you have in that link
Check out my post; I think I've figured out the match.

I do agree that Numista is being extraordinarily unhelpful here, yeah. I'm surprised how people do manage to classify their coins there correctly; in retrospect I kinda wonder how many of them are actually just assigned to a random entry for the right date.
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 Posted 05/19/2025  11:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
in retrospect I kinda wonder how many of them are actually just assigned to a random entry for the right date.

That is something I try very hard to NOT do. I want a correct classification for my coins.

And I'll go back and read your post on the morrow. time for bed for me now..
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