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 Replies: 34 / Views: 2,635 |
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Moderator
 United States
164145 Posts |
Quote:
Jack Young posted this coin... he collects counterfeits. That, plus the date font... authenticity is not a multiple choice option here. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1869 Posts |
Edited by livingwater
05/19/2025 5:31 pm
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Valued Member
 United States
498 Posts |
Just looking for some conversation here! I don't need to show it to Shawn (an original owner) or Tom who filmed the EAC auction and this item...  The obverse was reengraved, the date changed to1793 and "LIBERTY" strengthened similar to known Smith "counterfeits". A misnomer as the host coins were genuine. Most were modified to be wreath cents with the beaded obverse. Edited by burfle23
05/20/2025 09:07 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3262 Posts |
Granted that it is odd. The modification would have been done to increase its collectable value, but how recently? 1930's? 1950's? Any later than that it wouldn't fool anyone IMO. Way better job than my silly 1793....  "Two minutes ago I would have sold my chances for a tired dime." Fred Astaire
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1859 Posts |
Let me see if I understand this. The coin is a genuine 1794 that has had the date altered to 1793 is that correct? So it is not a production counterfeit but rather an altered date. What sort of value would you place on a piece like this?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4398 Posts |
The obverse does not match the 1794 S-63 as the date position, hair curl and bead count is different.
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Valued Member
United States
498 Posts |
Obverse was reengraved aka a "Smith Counterfeit". There obviously should not be a "bead count" on a 1794 large cent, part of the alteration. The reverse is a match.
I'll post images of the edge when I get it in-hand.
Edited by burfle23
05/20/2025 09:03 am
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Moderator
United States
164145 Posts |
Quote:
Just looking for some conversation here! A decent one it is. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4398 Posts |
I look forward to seeing your photos. I have posted a 1794 S-63 Fallen 4 in Date side by side with the OP obverse. When I look at these side by side, the make over seems over the top with too much work on the denticles, and date. Why change the hair curls? If the make over started from the 1794 S-63, all I can say is amazing work.  |
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Valued Member
United States
498 Posts |
Another from my collection; a Smithed" 1794 into a 1793 wreath. Yes, his work was amazing...  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1869 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
164145 Posts |
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Another from my collection; a Smithed" 1794 into a 1793 wreath. Yes, his work was amazing... Very nice!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3722 Posts |
Very interesting, thanks for sharing!
Suffering from bust half fever. Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4398 Posts |
Article from Coin World About Smith Counterfeits: The "Smith Counterfeit" is a curious 19th century numismatic oddity. Coin World's Paul Gilkes wrote in his Dec. 2, 2013, feature on contemporary counterfeits, "The Smith counterfeits were heavily circulated 1793 and 1794 cents that engraver William D. Smith — known as Smith of 1 Ann Street in New York City — re-engraved in the late 1850s and early 1860s to resemble higher grade 1793 cents. Some collectors suggest the Smith counterfeits are not counterfeits at all, but simply alterations to genuine U.S. Mint cents." Smith would begin with a well-worn host coin, and he extensively reworked both sides. The description notes that the present piece has a weight of only 157.1 grains, versus the standard 208.0-grain weight of a typical 1793 Flowing Hair cent, showing just how much metal was removed during Smith's handiwork. 1793 Flowing Hair, Wreath cent, altered, "Smith Counterfeit," Fine 12 Carrying an estimate of $2,000 and up, it brought $2,585.  |
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Moderator
United States
164145 Posts |
Very interesting! |
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Replies: 34 / Views: 2,635 |
First Page
Posted 05/19/2025 5:22 pm
