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1878 P Morgan Dollar VAM-85 New Discovery! New B1 Reverse!

 
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Pillar of the Community
3660 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2010  12:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You and I are in absolute, total agreement Dave......Now all we have to do is slap some sense into Bryan.....which might not be too easy....(he seems to have some very strange ideas about wanting more to be found).
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 Posted 10/29/2010  12:14 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
someone comes in claiming to have this and that and when they are asked for pictures or some kind of proof they just disappear.


I expect an onslaught of that at any time now, but the frequency of such finds will diminish as time goes on and the utter futility of it sinks in.
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23520 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2010  12:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are (were?) a few more. They were pushing dies in the first week of April 1878 when this was likely struck. The cracks on Bryan's coin are not terminal; was the end catastrophic or gradual (relatively speaking at 90 per minute)? I lean towards catastrophic because the die still had time to strike DMPL 80's. So, maybe 5 or 10 total, and how many survive, much less survive in Mint State?

Until proven otherwise, this is as much a stopper as the 1921-D VAM-1X, and it may well stay on that level.

Of course, Bryan, this means you have to buy the 1X.
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 Posted 10/29/2010  12:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I expect an onslaught of that at any time now, but the frequency of such finds will diminish as time goes on and the utter futility of it sinks in.

yeah any time there is quite a bit of a stir in the community or allot of publicity regarding one certain coin or type at first you will get them but after the smoke settles that is the ones you hear about that you have to think just may be the real thing. Not saying if someone finds one tomorrow it won't be true, just saying (guess I am getting ready to steal SuperDave's words here) question everything
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 Posted 10/29/2010  12:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Of course, Bryan, this means you have to buy the 1X.


Yeah, and the best part of that will be that you and J.O. will the the first ones to know exactly how much that 1X is worth.

As I recall I think he said that he paid $75 for it and it is in XF. It is a scribbles variety and your 85 is a '78 B1, so I guess that whatever you pay him for that 1X, you could just about double or triple that and be in the ball park for what your 85 is worth.

edited to add:

Be prepared (just as soon as you buy that 1X) to see it dropped from the hit 40 (or whatever list it is on).
Edited by zeewool
10/29/2010 01:17 am
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 Posted 10/29/2010  01:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Of course, Bryan, this means you have to buy me the 1X

SuperDave I fixed your comment because ever since I saw you post about that thing I always thought if I ever found one I would send it to you with no return address or anything and listen to you yahooing from here
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 Posted 10/29/2010  01:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the best of all possible worlds, my collection would consist of two coins: the 1921-D VAM-1X, and the single 1959 Jefferson nickel in PCGS PR69DCAM. Aside them, little else matters.
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United States
3075 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2010  02:34 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, nice coins, SD,,,I wont compare mine to anyones collection, I do have the 78P VAM 80 in DMPL.. wish it was the new one... but it has a NICE gash in the face... I'm still wondering about how many DMPL's are produced as an average from new dies, or polished dies..I mean the production numbers of thought, 10 to 15 cant be right.. as some years are LOADED with DMPLS....say 1885...not to debate but to inquire...G
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 Posted 10/29/2010  02:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just consider the number of dies it took to produce these Morgans. If it took 30 dies to strike one years' issue, there could theoretically be 300+ DMPLs for that year.
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United States
2541 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2010  09:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Gothic Florin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is kick ass. I know nothing about VAMS, but loved reading through this and learned a whole lot. Another reason I'm very glad I'm a member of this great community!
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 Posted 10/29/2010  2:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ozland to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Zee, the misplaced 7 on the A of STATES is actually the micro 'leprechaun sign' that was secretly struck on select dies as protest against political policies in Ireland. Today it would be considered more as a sympathy vote.
Edited by Ozland
10/29/2010 2:45 pm
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14454 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2010  2:53 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I received the coin back today. and it really does look like a digit in there instead of something there that looks like a 7.

Quote:
We he said Leroy found stuff he had not seen and he had looked at it for hours in his hand, I really took pause.

Well you have to think, I knew something was different about this coin but couldn't figure out what. I was looking at the things I could see right off hand and didn't really look at everything with the microscope to try and find all the little details like LVA did, I was just trying to figure out if anything known matched up. I also received the coin on Thursday morning and by Friday Morning it was on its way to LVA so I didn't really have allot of time to go over the whole coin to see every little detail since I was more worried about trying to attribute the things that did look different. its LVA's job (so to speak) to go over the whole thing with a fine tooth comb to list all the different characteristics so everyone else will know what to look for
Pillar of the Community
United States
2370 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2010  3:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SDcoinguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
so what does a coin like this go for, if you dont mind me asking
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 Posted 10/29/2010  3:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well the guy that wrote that article that Oz put up in here for the VAM-E Newsletter (the vice-president of Society Of Silver Dollar Collectors) said this on another forum

Quote:
his is a HUGE discovery. Leroy Van Allen had cataloged 7 different 1878 B1 reverse die marriages by 1965 in a booklet he had at the time, but this was before the first collaboration with A. George Mallis, hence before the first VAM book. Since then, there have been many discoveries of new die marriages for 1878 8TF, 1878 B2 reverse, and 1878 Rev. of 79, but nothing for B1. Consider that 1878-P has easily been the most intensely studied date over the past 45 years, and that people looking at coins included not only Leroy Van Allen and A. George Mallis, but also Jeff Oxman, Bill Fivaz, Michael Fey, Larry Briggs (who it seems has looked at a significant percentage of the 1878-P mintage himself), Pete "1878-P Nutt" Bishal, Martin Field, and current VAMmers too numerous to mention. To have no changes in the B1 reverse die marriage listing for 45 years would seem evidence about as conclusive as one could expect that there were no more B1 die marriages. A small sample of collectors have looked at other coins in their collections that could be VAM 85 misattributed as VAM 80, but so far, nothing. Other samples will probably turn up eventually, and as they were the earliest strikes from the VAM 85-80-22 obverse die, they will have deep mirrors, and noticeable reflectivity in protected areas even in EF45. As the discovery coin has been permanently impounded in the OP's collection, we'll have to wait for another to be found to determine value. If it's as rare as it seems initially, $30,000 for a 63DMPL would not surprise me. If it's not, well, it's still a heck of a find.

I don't know how accurate this is but it may not be far off considering how long it took to discover this one and the condition of the reverse die and when you factor those in and how rare this coin has a chance to be, it may be close
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 Posted 10/29/2010  4:29 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bryan1315 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder if ANACS is the only one who will attribute the VAM right now. I would love for NGC or PCGS to put the attribution on the slab but don't know when or if they will do it
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