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Verdi-care before & After

 
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Pillar of the Community
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1151 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2011  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yankee1227 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder how PCGS or NGC would say about it such as cleaned or altered sufaces?
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16328 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2011  6:03 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm not one to buy coins with verdigris on them so, in this case, you either leave the verdigris on the coin or you "clean" the coin. I vote for "clean"
ANA LM1214396
U.S. Colonial and Large Cent fanatic.
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16328 Posts
 Posted 09/19/2011  6:05 pm  Show Profile   Check vermontensium's eBay Listings Check vermontensium's eCrater Listings Bookmark this reply Add vermontensium to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
BTW, BadThad has submitted coins after to NGC and they holdered problem free. Not sure the exact product he used. It was the Verdi Line of products.
ANA LM1214396
U.S. Colonial and Large Cent fanatic.
Pillar of the Community
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1653 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  12:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I can't believe people are being fooled into spending like $10 on a small vial of this junk.
Ever heard of ACETONE? Yes, good ole' cheap acetone. It does exactly the same thing to verdigris and the effect is rarely noticeable as cleaning (although it technically is cleaning).
As far as I'm concerned, this Verdi-Care is just acetone under a higher price and fancy description.
I told BadThad the same thing on another forum and also to the eBay seller pushing this overpriced option. Both claim the product has no acetone, but if it walks and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. =)
Also, the health warnings given by the manufacturer are the same as those for diluted acetone. Like, diluted with water so it does not give cleaned metals that unnatural shine as pure acetone may do for some metals.
The OP does a good job of advertising it though.
Edited by Numismat
09/23/2011 12:26 pm
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 Posted 09/23/2011  12:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Yes, good ole' cheap acetone. It does exactly the same thing to verdigris

You could not be more wrong, acetone does nothing to verdigris other than wash off some of the loose surface material.


Quote:
and the effect is rarely noticeable as cleaning (although it technically is cleaning)...it does not give cleaned metals that unnatural shine as pure acetone may do for some metals

Again, not true. Acetone is inert to coinage metals, "cleaning" in regards to coins implies a damaging process. Pure acetone used under normal circumstances will not alter the patina of a coin or give it an "unnatural shine".
Pillar of the Community
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4126 Posts
 Posted 09/23/2011  1:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Ever heard of ACETONE? Yes, good ole' cheap acetone. It does exactly the same thing to verdigris and the effect is rarely noticeable as cleaning (although it technically is cleaning).

You're completely wrong. It doesn't look like acetone, smell like acetone, evaporate rapidly like acetone, or do the same thing for coins as acetone.



I had already rinsed the before coin in acetone to remove grease, gunk and loose debris before the "before" pictures. The "after" pictures are after treatment with Verdi-Care. Acetone would never remove verdigris like this. I have to wonder if you have ever used acetone before.

I don't care if you don't like the product, or don't agree with treating coins this way, but don't spout ignorance as facts.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/23/2011  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The same effect can and has been achieved with diluted acetone. After biokemist6 was kind enough to inform me that my previous method of using nail polish remover was terrible, I switched to a solution of 60% acetone and 40% purified water. The result is the same. And Verdi-Care will not remove verdigris that has eaten into the surface, just as acetone will not either. Both are good for pvc slime, leftover adhesives or light oxidation that's on top of the surface (like the penny posted by captainfwiffo). Soaking it in acetone will not do anything for oxidation, you're right. But a little applied pressure works and leaves behind the same dark brownish spots that this product does.

I actually purchased a bottle from Wizard coin supply to do some comparison and found no difference in result.

And actually the best results I've had for the stuff like on that penny is using an alcohol pad and light rubbing. Yes, it seems like a stupid thing to do, but works great on the coins I've tried it on.

Not actually saying it's acetone in the bottle, but I am saying it's basically the same thing, because it has the same effect.

The only difference is price.

$15 for 60ml, or $10 for a quart (946ml)?

Seems like an easy call to me.


PS: biokemist, I meant technically speaking it is cleaning because you are removing something from the surface. "Cleaning" vs "conserving" is just splitting hairs, IMHO. I would still call it cleaning even rinsing off surface dirt with warm water, but I'm a little weird like that. =)
Edited by Numismat
09/23/2011 4:37 pm
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 Posted 09/23/2011  5:38 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, went and found a couple of pennies with surface issues. Please note that I deal exclusively with foreign coins and have no previous experience with this method on US copper/bronze coins (only silver and gold). Still, I believe the results speak for themselves.

Method used:

- 2 to 3 minute soak in 60% acetone (100% virgin)/40% purified tap water (distilled water preferred).
- Air dry
- Gentle wiping with alcohol pad (heavily soaked in alcohol)
- Air dry again.

These coins had some whitish material on the front of the coin on left and some light greenish-white cloudiness on the front of the coin on right
The back of coin on left has light green oxidation in the center of the building, while the coin on right has a mix of light oxidation and heavier oxidation that has eaten into the surface.

The above method removed the whitish and greenish stuff on the front and left dark spots where it removed the heavier green oxidation on the back. Also, the coins did not develop fine hairlines since the alcohol pad was well soaked.
There dark staining was not something I expected to come off with any product.

I tried to keep the angle and flash as consistent as I could, but since I don't have a tripod there is slight difference in the angle of the various pictures.

Before:



After:




Before:



After:

Edited by Numismat
09/23/2011 5:43 pm
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 Posted 09/23/2011  11:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You don't want to dilute the acetone with water - you want to use 100% pure acetone specifically because it contains minimal water and evaporates quickly and completely. You want to keep moisture away from your coins. Likewise, you don't want to use alcohol because it contains water.

If you actually look closely at my coin, you will see that spots of verdigris were removed - verdigris that was not touched at all by acetone which I had just used prior. Acetone is great for removing oil, glue, gunk, loose debris and organic matter, but it doesn't help verdigris.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 09/23/2011  11:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numismat to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Taking that into account, I think the alcohol may have more to do with it than the acetone.
Please note that this method I mentioned above is recent and I'm still working on it. If not for biokemist's response to one of my comments a couple months back, I would still be using nail polish remover and wondering why the coins were left with a permanent cloudiness on the surface. =)
I neglected to mention that the alcohol I use is not the typical isopropyl rubbing alcohol, which ranges from 60% to 75% pure. I actually use high proof spirits, such as Staropolskaya which is 96% pure ethanol alcohol.
It's pretty cheap and I find it at most liquor stores around here. Not sure of availability elsewhere though.
I don't think either my method, this product, or anything else available will completely remove heavy corrosion or verdigris that has altered the surface where it has developed. At least not without leaving obvious traces. On your coin there doesn't seem to be any of that, and the before/after effect is quite clear. The coin to the right that I posted had some of this and, although all parts were not completely removed, the green "disease" itself was removed leaving only the damage it had previously done.
Edited by Numismat
09/23/2011 11:44 pm
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