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Counterfeit (?) 1948, 1947ML, 1947 dollar coin lots  
 

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
914 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1cent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My worst fear with fakes is when the oft-praised counterfeit sleuth that posted directly above me says there's nothing wrong with them, but I feel in my gut the '48 on the left isn't right. We all know that the eventual reality is that they will get so good there won't be any markers to detect.

Pillar of the Community
United States
1030 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  02:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These images of a previously sold 1945 have a lot of surrounding natural color, which causes me to think the other images are really what these coins look like in person. The odd dark patterns and parallel smudges on the reverse (zoom in) that look like fingerprints but aren't... Were they rescued after a fire?

Pillar of the Community
Canada
1330 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  08:24 am  Show Profile   Check nickelsguy's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nickelsguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I checked the 45 as well before I said anything. Poor pictures, coins in manila envelopes all add to unease. I will get fooled one day. Of that I am sure. But you must trust your gut. That is reality.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1893 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Even though I'm still not sure if these coins are fake or not, I wouldn't want to be the winner of those 1948's and have to go through the hassle of verifying them and then returning them and hoping eBay returns your money.
Valued Member
Canada
82 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Okay, the single 1948 dollar might be okay.

Earlier I posted that I got burned last week with a fake. It had the exact look of these coins.

If one coin looked weird, that might be okay but you have the highest value rare dollars that all have the same unnatural toning. Silver doesn't tone that colour - it would have different shades of black, blue, green, gold, not volcanic-mud brown, which is what the fakes look like. Plus there is no hint of any lustre under the toning as you would expect to find on any normal toned dollar.

All the coins are being sold at the same time; it implies they were together. They should all have the same sort of toning, not a brushed on look on some and splotches on another and only the edge on others - not going to happen under the same storage conditions.

Rough black corroded rims, not just a bit of black toning. In fifty years of collecting I've never had a silver coin that has anywhere near that kind of rust, except on my counterfeits (which have been cleaned in my earlier photos) and I have silver coins going back to 1200. None ever had tarnish like that.

Most importantly, too weakly struck(except maybe the 1 1948). Check the pair of 48's and 47 4 x HP especially. They are not struck deeply enough for real Canadian dollars. They look like the obverses of 1951 nickels with the low relief. Some of the coins appear to be high grades by the hair detail on George, but the other details, voyageurs and canoe and trees, are too weak for a high grade coin.



Edited by TerryT
10/11/2017 2:32 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1893 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  2:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
TerryT.................I hear your concerns and I agree with you, but the coins still look kind of OK to me.

These are certainly tough ones for sure.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1030 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just FYI, I contacted the seller and asked "What is the history of these and your other Canadian coins? They all look like they've been in a fire or something. I am reluctant to bid because they all look like they might be counterfeits." Their response was "They're not counterfeit, they were part of my grandfathers collection." I followed up with "Can you say how they were stored and for how long? I'm trying to determine how they came to look like that." They responded "They were stored in a coffee can in his barn".

What do silver coins retrieved after a fire look like? I know the above is a common "story", but if true, I'm thinking maybe the barn burned down. Seller also has a lot of 54 Franklin halves and they all look like this. Faking a bunch of <$5 circulated 1962 Franklins? Truly a head-scratcher. Oh well, moving on...
Valued Member
Canada
82 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  5:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yep, the old coffee can that you keep $1000 coins in.

The seller of the fake coin I got told me they were from an old collection from an estate sale. He had listed 3 1914, 1921, and 1931 50 cents, with blurry photos as you can see above. Funny thing, the next day there were more 50 cents from the same collection, that all had normal clear photos that were all VGish common fifty cents and all appeared normal. How do you get 3 high grade 1914, 1921, 1931 rare grade coins that have at least EF detail in a collection of low grade common coins
and then use blurry photos for the 3 expensive ones and good photos for the other?

The grandfather never kept a 49 or 50 or any other common date, just the most valuable ? No other common or normally toned coins ? Doesn't add up.
How lucky to only have kept the most expensive of all the Canadian silver dollars And the US 50 cents you mention could also be all fakes. The value of the coins faked doesn't matter - if it costs you 10 cents to make and you can sell it for $5 it's profitable. There are many common dates that have been counterfeited, both US and Canadian, and many other countries
Edited by TerryT
10/11/2017 5:15 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1893 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2017  7:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add doubleeagle59 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hearing the seller say 'they're from my Grandfather's collection' gives me a very unpleasant feeling.

I'm leaning towards fake.
Valued Member
Canada
82 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  01:58 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's something else I found while looking over the rims and forgot to post with my other concerns. If you can blow up the photo, note on the lower coin, the chip above the N. Never saw a silver coin chip. It's soft; dent,cut, scrape, bend, yes: but chip ? It also doesn't look the right colour even if it could chip.




On another note, there are no items in the sellers store anymore, HUH ?!
Edited by TerryT
10/12/2017 02:06 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
959 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  08:35 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Alan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think it's a chip, it's not raised, it looks like a ding.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
3050 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  10:08 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DEVLEC to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for all of this sleuthing on these offerings..

I'm enjoying this detailed work from you all..

..but I've never handled coins that looked like this either..so I can't add any more..

Pillar of the Community
United States
1030 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  10:41 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kbbpll to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seller has multiple new listings including another 1945. They all look the same. I think we've now seen almost every dollar 1935-1957 including multiples of key dates. That was some coffee can. If somebody tried really hard to make real coins look fake I guess this would be the result.

Any comment on my fire theory? I have a wood stove but I'm not sure which dollar I'm willing to sacrifice...
Valued Member
Canada
82 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TerryT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Alan, I didn't mean a raised die-chip, I meant that there was a chip broken off of the rim, which isn't normal for a silver coin. It would dent, not chip off.
Valued Member
Canada
289 Posts
 Posted 10/12/2017  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GaryN to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sure don't look like the real thing to me. I'd never purchase them, and feel good about it if I had to try to re-sell.

Thanks for the intel.
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