Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Coin Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!
 All Forums
 US Coins and Currency Discussion Forums
 US Classic Variety and Error Coins

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
 

The rare 1871 "Shallow N" IHC

Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
KurtS
Pillar Of The Community
5318 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2008  12:08 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

The 1871 "Shallow N" variety represents a recent and important discovery for IHC variety collectors.
In fact, the demand for this scarce variety has grown so hot that this coin now commands 4X-8X the price of a "normal" 1871.

Here are the major diagnostic points of this coin, which can all be determined by carefully examining "ONE CENT" on the reverse.
Compare the notes below to the two coins in my photo.


  • a. As "Shallow N" suggests, the N in ONE is noticeably shallower, showing a concavity in the diagonal stroke. In poorer grades, the N may almost wear into the field compared to the surrounding letters. In higher grades, you may see a raised edge on the lower side of the diagonal stroke--visible in the photo

  • b. Compare the top serifs of this N. In the "Shallow N", these serifs are noticeably longer. Also compare the distances between NT in CENT. This variety is easy to spot by just this one feature.

  • c. Compare the extension of the middle serif of the E in both words. In the "Bold N", these serifs are trumpet-shaped, with a smooth curve from end to end. In the "Shallow N", the serif has a noticeably narrow midsection terminating in a sharp angle to the wider part




Important note: a very convincing counterfeit of this variety has surfaced, so AU-MS grades should be slabbed or otherwise authenticated.

Edited by KurtS
10/26/2008 12:11 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5586 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2008  2:43 pm  Show Profile Check SHAFTA9a's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kurt, How would one counterfeit a coin like that?

and,how could one make the "N" in the bold variety, look like the "N" in the shallow variety, and if you had a VG grade, could you tell?


Just curious, that's all.
Pillar Of The Community
Coin Community SupporterSupporter!
5318 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2008  2:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Shafta9, the counterfeit is very sophisticated and obviously very carefully made--probably die struck.


Quote:
if you had a VG grade, could you tell?
I think with a little practice, you can tell these apart even in G4 by the comparing the serifs and distances between NT in CENT--does it come across in the photo above?
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5586 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2008  3:03 pm  Show Profile Check SHAFTA9a's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SHAFTA9a to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, it does , Kurt, BTW, very nice pics.

What would a coin like that be worth in VG?
New Member
United States
46 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2008  3:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cearnan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Awesome Kurt! I am going to dig through my indian heads and see if I have this variety.
Pillar Of The Community
Coin Community SupporterSupporter!
5318 Posts
 Posted 10/26/2008  3:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks!
In the Red Book for IHCs, Rick Snow values a "Shallow N" in VG8 as $300, vs. $80 for the normal "bold N" reverse.
Do you have a 1871? I'd enjoy seeing pics!
Edited by KurtS
10/26/2008 3:29 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1571 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2008  01:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add livingdinasaur to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kurt, could the "shallow "N" be a weak strike"? I don't note very much difference in the rst of the devices, as far as being more, or less, bold. Counterfeit was mentioned; is this coin a counterfeit? I don't have a '71, to look at, much less two of them to compare.
Dick
Edited by livingdinasaur
10/27/2008 01:19 am
Pillar Of The Community
Coin Community SupporterSupporter!
5318 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2008  01:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Dick, the "Shallow N" variety is created by a different hub variety--documented by Rick Snow and others.
The difference may be subtle in places, but they are present on every "Shallow N" reverse.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
860 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2008  03:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add desertgem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kurt, Does the shallow "N" occur in any other years? I seem to remember reading discussion about that question.

Thanks

Jim
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2245 Posts
 Posted 10/27/2008  06:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TreasHunt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Kurt:
Thanks for the info, I'll add it to my cherrypicking list.
TreasHunt
Pillar Of The Community
Coin Community SupporterSupporter!
5318 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2008  06:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry, I missed the updates to this thread...
Jim, yes--the "Shallow N" or "Hub C" reverse was in use from 1864-70. In 1870, there were several double-hubbed reverses using the older "Shallow N" and newer "Bold N" hub or "D/C". I have one of those coins. Additionally, the following dates used reverse dies made with the shallow N hub: 1871 (two proof varieties and pairings with two obverses). 1873 and all 1877 business strike reverses--this is an important criteria used for authentication.

Note: the above info was taken from Rick Snow's 1870-1889 attribution guide, page 1.
Moderator
Coin Community SupporterSupporter!
United States
2544 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2008  07:33 am  Show Profile Check xshift's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've got to get my hands on those guides. Every time I look at one of my IHC's I want to bang my head on the desk for not getting them already! I called today to make sure they had them at the shop, and I'm headed down later this week to get 'em. I suppose I won't be cherrypicking IHC's at that particular place
Our members sell on eBay! | And so do I

*Seeking coin images for the Coin Inscription Project at coinscriptions.com - please let me know if you can help!*
Moderator
Coin Community SupporterSupporter!
United States
2544 Posts
 Posted 10/28/2008  07:36 am  Show Profile Check xshift's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add xshift to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the way, Kurt, great write-up and pictures... very helpful!
Our members sell on eBay! | And so do I

*Seeking coin images for the Coin Inscription Project at coinscriptions.com - please let me know if you can help!*
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
CoinSniper.com is the numismatic penny auction.SELECTED Modern WORLD Coins with LOW MintageAmerican Silver Eagles only $2.49 over Spot!Coins Commemorating the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympic GamesSWCoins - We Love Coins
Coin Community Member eBay Sales - Only CCF Members Included Here
Ending Soon   Newly Listed   Lowest Price   Highest Price  
Certified Coins   Certified VAMs   Certified Errors  
New Forum Topics Recently Active Forum Topics




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2014 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use
Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2014 Coin Community Forums Go To Top Of Page
It took 2.04 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05