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Copper Stain on 1978 22k Can. Commemorative $100 Gold Coin

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Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2008  07:57 am Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Tucana to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Hi There,
I have a 1978 22k Canadian Commemorative $100 Gold Coin - uncirculated and has been in it's original box and not tampered with or cleaned - has its original Certificate of Authenticity from the Royal Canadian Mint.
Obverse: Arnold Machin's acclaimed effigy of Queen Elizabeth II surrounded by the legend "100 dollars Canada 1978 Queen Elizabeth II"
Reverse: Depicts twelve Canada geese flying together in the same direction with the legend: "Together into the future"

On the obverse, there is a copper type stain over the Queens' head. Would it be the copper content in the gold when it was made which has come through and tarnished leaving the copper red streak? Would the Royal Mint be responsible for this? I feel the coin has lost its value because of it. Not sure if it was always there. Does anyone know if anything can be done about it? I wouldn't want to pass it on to anyone with the staining.

Thanks in advance!

Image: coin.jpg
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Image: IMG_5920.jpg
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United States
860 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2008  2:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add desertgem to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Most 22k gold coins will develop minute copper spots over time unless stored in very good conditions. Since gold doesn't chemically bond with silver or copper, the metal will always be a molecular "mix" rather than molecularly "bonded". The copper molecules can react with the environment just as a copper containing coin. But since there is much less copper than gold, and since it "should" be evenly dispersed, the gold coin can very slightly tone. Evidently in cases where such large tone areas appear it is due to uneven preparation of the planchet material. I doubt that the mint would accept responsibility for it, but all they can say is no.

Jim
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 Posted 12/06/2008  3:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
DesertGem, very interesting! That explains how the copper leaches off the surface of shipwreck coins, producing a porous surface.
So it's part of the coin and cannot be fixed, sorry to say. Best thing you can do is keep somewhere safe from excessive moisture.
I would guess the coin grades lower because of toning, but perhaps others know better?
My 2008 Charlton's Canadian Catalogue lists this coin for $400 in PR67 and $600 for PR68
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United States
3992 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2008  5:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add daviscfad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
nice looking coin

to the community
Edited by daviscfad
12/06/2008 5:04 pm
New Member
Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 12/06/2008  6:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tucana to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it really a nice looking coin even with the streak?....LOL

--FYI: after you reach 50 posts, you're welcome to sell coins to other members--Coin Community Staff.
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United States
3992 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  12:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add daviscfad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is it really a nice looking coin even with the streak?....LOL


well I wouldnt say the streak is the hot setup but I like it... I like the way Canada does there coins
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Canada
597 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  02:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add IBGolden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was wondering if the discoloured obverse was originally facing the COA, and then re-acting with the copper.
I've actually had to clean an ink spot from a red COA off one of these coins with a Q-tip and alcohol... well just to see if it would come off. Not all of it did.

I have a coin from the same series that is similarly discoloured... as well as a 1/10 W Eagle.
I believe that the copper is amalgamating sooner and not mixing evenly when poured(just very tiny specs), then rolling for coinage stretches out these imperfections in the mix.

There's also a release agent that can leave a brown to purple stain... I've seen these on a J&M bars.

These coins seldom realize much more than spot, even though most were purchased and put away and are in the same condition now as when originally purchased.

I now actually put these coins in a 2x2 bag then into the case.

Picture... I don't own them all!
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Canada
3 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  12:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tucana to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I did try cleaning it with vinegar and a Q-tip but it's still there.
I'm just wondering if I try to sell the coin, what I should ask for it due to the streaking. By the way, Nice collection you have!
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 Posted 12/07/2008  1:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would seriously leave any proof-grade coin completely alone, because anything you do to the surface could leave something permanent.
Even a Q-tip can leave hairlines on a proof coin, especially a gold one (they're soft).
It's pretty hard to assign a value on your coin online, especially since the market may be different in Canada.
I'd suggest taking it to a local coin shop to get their opinion.
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Canada
597 Posts
 Posted 12/07/2008  8:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add IBGolden to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Of course he is rite. Cleaning any coin is usually a no-no... but like I mentioned I've only paid about spot for this series. Often the coins are sold without the cases for shipping reasons... further retarding the price for the proof/mint/perfect/hard nose/PF70 collector.

I see few, if any, of these coins sold graded. It would hafta be a perfect coin to warrant this(in me humble opinion).
I personally do not own all the coins in the above pictured collection(just the native themed ones, which also carry the higher premium... and the one native themed sub-set within the series).

So, the value of the coin won't change much because of the streak... one half OH ZED... it all good and considerably more than the issue price
But, I also agree that if it is a copper streak, there's nothing to be done about it, and being ungraded to begin with, just leave it.

Now, I'm imagining this happening over time to a slabbed coin, but I 'spose being airtight this would take lifetimes to happen.

Just an interesting thing... wood fibres(paper towel) are very abrasive, cotton fibres(cotton ball) much, much better. Wipe a junk CD with each to see what I mean. And to try and swab some ink off a 22kt(somewhat hardened) coin(as I did), was worth a try(I was still careful as can be). Not that I clean alotta coins, but a bullion coin/bar with an elastic melted into it, I got no problems cleaning that off.
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