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1878 P eye spike?

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Valued Member
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170 Posts
 Posted 11/07/2011  9:07 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add allcoinsnewbie to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Hi all,

Would you consider this an eye spike? It does go all the way to the pupil area.

Only visible with 10x.

Thank you







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 Posted 11/08/2011  12:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
just a quick glance, It looks like a B1 reverse, disconnected leave, VAM's 70 to VAM 86
....Check those, I need to finish painting...by the way few have the disconnected leave..
and it doesn't look like VAM 84, or VAM 84A...most likely an 80, can't see the other details from your pics to make a positive Id, but few are left...
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 Posted 11/08/2011  03:22 am  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It looks like a B1 reverse


The B1 Reverse is a Long Nock - the OP's coin is a short nock B2 reverse. I'm inclined to think the "spike" is postmint damage, a gouge from an impact. One can see the circular area immediately above the spike where the metal was dug from.

The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

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 Posted 11/08/2011  03:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
had time to copy and put it upon the big screen,, SD you are correct, not a long nock...has the over polished eye...as you say the eye spike could be do to PMD... back to painting..over polished eye and the broken d should narrow it down
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 Posted 11/08/2011  10:57 am  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heh. You didn't catch the nock, and I didn't catch the broken D. Looks to be missing the nostril, so VAM-190? Doesn'y play, thouugh - the 4th star looks intact. Need more info.

Allcoinsnewbie, those are nice little detail shots. Could you do the D in DOLLAR and the 4th right obverse star that way?
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

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Valued Member
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170 Posts
 Posted 11/08/2011  11:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add allcoinsnewbie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'm so excited. Do you think I actually have a VAM?

Here's pics of D and stars. First star pic is of left.

Just narrowed my collecting to Morgans 2 wks ago. Studying like crazey since. My head is spinning.

Yesterday narrowed it further to just 78's so I can learn just ONE date well.













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 Posted 11/08/2011  1:12 pm  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
All Morgans are VAMs - that's the overall term used to describe Morgan varieties, and every Morgan is a variety of one sort or another even if we haven't specifically identified it yet.

Thanks for the details - those are two fairly important spots for helping to narrow down 1878 varieties. Your D *does* look to be broken, but the 4th right star (an important point) is unbroken. In the orientation of your images, the point is the one at 9:00-10:00, pointing left. On some 1878's, it's broken off. That helps narrow it down. Looking closer, I see that the nostril is weak but all there.

Given the degree of wear, this will still be a difficult attribution. I have a slim guess as to what VAM this coin might be; here's what to look for:

- doubling of IBERTY, to the left. I'm hoping that will show even in a worn coin.

- tripled cotton blossoms. With the wear, this will be hard, but if you can still see it they'll be tripled down and to the right. The leftmost of the two will probably show it better if it's still there.

You're going to need magnification, and this stuff likely won't photograph.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, coinguybrian, numismo, Johnny54321 - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
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 Posted 11/08/2011  2:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add allcoinsnewbie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
silly me..hoping I had a VAM. I do appreciate all I learn here in just a few hours.

You people are amazing. Will follow up on the advice.

Thanks to all.
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 Posted 11/09/2011  12:00 am  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You *do* have a VAM. ALL Morgans are VAMs. We're just trying to find out which VAM you have, and with an 1878 I like our chances.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, coinguybrian, numismo, Johnny54321 - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

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 Posted 11/09/2011  12:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You do have a VAM lol,, thats what they all are. with any good coin and especially a very worn coin the process is essentially the same..Eliminate all possibillities of what yuou don't have by looking for main attribution points which you do have,,,Normally the date is the first thing and the mint mark is second, however the 789 series, the date was in the bub so they are all at the same location, and with no mint mark, for the 78 series one needs to figure out what Reverse type you have, for example, in your first reverse photo, it looked like a disconnected leave, (see VAM 80 for an example)...However blowing your coin up shows it is not disconnected, and as SD noted it is also NOT a long knock coin,,,so we look at the arrow feathers and NOTE they are parallel, which determines this to be a B2 reverse..vams from say 100 to 200...
thats around 100 Vams from 230 or so, so your half way there
just in determining the reverse type...
Next one needs some smoking gun or feature to narrow this down considerably,,,this you do have,,,The broken "D"
this now cuts the coins possibilities to around a dozen..
next to cut this down, one needs to take high resolution photo's of the OBVERSE letters RIB the E and P, and check as SD suggests pics of the same Liberty and cotton bowls..
crop these before resizing them so the greatest detail will be captured , I think I suspect somethings up with the R, but can't be sure yet...with these photo's one CAM compare them to these last vams for what it can finally be narrowed down to...It is much harder for a worn coin but not impossible by using these methods.......Post these and lets go from there....G
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 Posted 11/09/2011  12:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add allcoinsnewbie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thank you G..hope these pics are what you need.

I have 3 1978's, one with broken 4th star I just learned about from here yesterday.











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 Posted 11/10/2011  12:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the close up photo's but I forgot to mention the letters I am referring to are of the EPluRIBus not the liberty, as the liberty usually is double in many but not all cases for this year,,how every the E,P and RIB play a great roll in attributing the 78 series....I have been trying to put some things into play, to narrow the research down,,,I do think its a broken D, but it could be just worn,,,So im not excluding it, but rather have it on the side bar...
try some close ups of the E,P and the RIB and also the second star right of the date please. thanks...
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170 Posts
 Posted 11/10/2011  5:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add allcoinsnewbie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi G, more pics. You are so nice..all the work!

Your instructions have gone a long way in clearing my head.









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 Posted 11/11/2011  12:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I haven't looked at all the files, The reverse right wing is over polished, can't quit tell if the left middle wing is due to wear,,Kind of leaning to VAM 196, as the D is not as missing/broken but very thin at the bottom....In general, the 78 series is known for the many double of letters which one can not see by your photo's it would go a long way in truely deciding what it is...one would need a micro scope to see them
difficult too with the wear and blackness always associated around the letters...Vam 196 also has a die chip in the second 8 between the upper and lower loops...even worn you should be able to see it...lets see what others have observed here..its very tuff on worn coins without real smoking guns..
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170 Posts
 Posted 11/11/2011  4:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add allcoinsnewbie to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Spent much time with 30x trying to put some doubling on this. None!
Also, searched the VAM 1978 list. Can't match it.
Too much wear I guess.
Thanks for everything.
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 Posted 11/12/2011  12:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My friend, this is one of your first best lesson's..we will come close but not quite get it our first time around...We all have our
"what is it pile"...now here is your first coin in the pile, it doesn't mean give up it only means move on and learn more....later with more wisdom you may find out just what it is..as you have the coin in hand you will be the one to discover it as with these pictures we cant see everything...simply move onto the next coin, there is learning in each attempt...Gene
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