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How "Real" are NCLTs?

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Pillar of the Community
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United States
1965 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2012  6:03 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Poll Question
As those who participate in this forum already know, NCLTs offer a wide variety of design themes and are popular with many coin collectors.

They are, however, also bashed by some collectors as not being "real coins." Where do you stand in the "real coin" debate?

On a scale of 1 to 10 -- with "1" being "Absolutely Not a Coin" and "10" being "As Much a Coin as Those in Circulation" -- please indicate how you view NCLT issues and share your thoughts.

Poll Choices
1 - Absolutely Not a Coin
2
3
4
5 - I See It Both Ways
6
7
8
9
10 - As Much a Coin as Those in Circulation

    Anonymous Vote
Collecting history, one commemorative coin (or medal) at a time!
Original content (c) Commems, 2012-2014
Edited by commems
02/06/2012 6:03 pm
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United States
4252 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2012  6:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheNickelGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I voted 10 .... That it is as much a coin as those in circulation. If I spent $10.00 to buy a Fifty cent Washington Half Dollar, I can still spend it as a half dollar, so it is a legal tender coin in the US.
That might be pretty dumb of me but it is still OK to do.
Perhaps there are other coins that fall into this category that are not legal tender in other countries, but I can bust up any proof set and spend the coins and even spend an American Silver Eagle or Gold 10 dollar Olympic Proof if I wanted.
The person receiving the coin, even a bank teller might not know if it was legal but it sure is.
Here is an article I find interesting about
Non-Circulating Legal Tender coins

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Australia
8710 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2012  7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't particularly like modern NCLT made for collector only issues. They are too cynically commercial for me.
Having said that, proof coins must be an integral part (although a sideline) of the circlating coinage system.

And even I am guilty of owning a British gold proof 1937 Five Pounds and Two Pounds of George V1.

Off metal NCLT strikes of standard circulating coinage are certainly interesting, but I do have a lot of problems with designs and denominations that are never intended to be used in circulating coinage, although they may have legal status as coins.

A vexed question with lots of grey areas.
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Australia
11140 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2012  7:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I voted "9".

NCLT fits the legal and technical definition of "coin", so in most respects it is indeed "just as much a coin" as regular circulation coins, and I happily include them in my collection, especially if actual circulation coins from that country are hard to come by.

The only thing they lack is recognition and use by the general public. Such widespread recognition and acceptance for actual use as money was and still is the reason for existence of "coins" in the first place, so for that reason I don't give them the full 10 points. Of course, many intended-for-circulation coins are never "widely accepted" either, such as the American $1 coin and the Canadian nickel 50 cents.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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423 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2012  8:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add realpenny to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are no more "real" coins. That ships has sailed. Coated steel is coated steel. And a government promise is worth less than a coated steel cent. ;)

The law limits apply when paying with circulating coins or NCLT's the same.

We easily could come up 15,000 2011 Cents in MS-63-65 easily and get them bagged. If you buy them that way then what really is the difference between NCLT's and circulating coins. You are buying a product that someone thinks it is worth than face either way. Both are even packaged as a "collectable" - the sure sign a bubble will happen one day.

No one needs any coins other than for daily transactions. And unless you collect all your coins from change you are buying a product just the same. Modern coins are NCLT's of a different sort - more and more so each year as more get bagged. The older collectors might disagree but honestly who really builds a coin collection anymore themselves. Small cents and nickels are the last of the real coins you still have a chance of building yourself for a couple more years. Modern circulation coins are hoarded even worse than NCLT numbers. Don't kid yourself.

Both types of coins are a consumer product. Price can go up and then can drop out any day just as easily. Sure it was harder to build a circulation collection before but for anything more than a nickel, those days are over. And that argument will apply less and less as more coin shops and people hoard away modern coins in mint state.

Edit: And the way you asked the question makes it a loaded question. Who cares what "others" think... they probably hope to make money one day and the only way for that to happen is if you believe what they want you to believe, there consumer product is better than some other consumer product.

Collect what you like and can afford.
Edited by realpenny
02/06/2012 8:17 pm
Valued Member
Canada
279 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2012  10:24 pm  Show Profile Check Scissel's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Scissel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
There are no more "real" coins. That ships has sailed. Coated steel is coated steel.


That's an interesting premise. The corollary of that idea is that a silver NCLT such as the $20 for $20 is more of a REAL coin than our circulation coinage. Should a REAL coin be measured in ounces rather than dollars?
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Australia
780 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2012  11:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Mr T to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think it depends. If they are of the same specifications (or at least the same dimensions) as a legal tender coin, then yes. If not, then I guess it's still a coin, but it's not really money.
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423 Posts
 Posted 02/06/2012  11:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add realpenny to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
^^^
I was just playing with a word in his question. Everything depends on how you look at things.

Is there a difference between modern coins and NCLT's? Tons of circulation coins are put away on purpose to be collectable, people save mint rolls, etc... more so than previously, before it became a "hobby". Doesn't that basically make some modern circulating coins basically NCLT's?

I am surprised the RCM hasn't figured out that they could put there own circulation coins in a bag/flip/box off the circulating press line yet and charge people just a little extra for the service. But it's my idea and I patented it so if they want to use it... I'll license them it.

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Canada
1496 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2012  12:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add poboxw to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
in my books NCLTs are more "real" considering the metals content in them when compared to current circulation coins.
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United States
163 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2012  1:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add War Nickel to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Uh, yeah!
Read Whitmans Guide to American Coins....
There are all kinds of sketchy things in there...
Tokens, Confederate coins, state-issued coins, patterns...
Whitmans should know, they rate coins! So , I voted 10.
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Canada
1316 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2012  3:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add darryldarryl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I might suggest we all look at the last two words of Non Circulating Legal Tender(NCLT) and and base your premise on that!
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United States
162 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2012  4:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ZiggyZ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I voted 2 - as close to not being a coin as possible without actually not being a coin. To me, they are essentially medals issued by governments. Nothing wrong with collecting them, just like there's nothing wrong with collecting medals, but not something I'm interested in.

P.S. You're going to get very skewed results polling this question in the NCLT forum.
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Canada
501 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2012  7:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cownick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
10 is my vote. It only circulates through collectors and not the public. It is the best coins approved by the Government as legal tender.
The only problem is that it dose not come from the bank. It sure would be alot cheaper.
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1965 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2012  12:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add commems to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Seems like a good time to close this poll out...

Thanks to everyone who voted and/or offered their thoughts on the topic. Considering the forum area, I expected the voting to favor the view of NCLTs being "real" coins and it did. The votes in the other direction didn't come as a surprise as I know how strong some collectors feel that "if I can't spend it at the corner store, it isn't a coin." I was a little surprised by the percentage of folks who don't feel strongly one way or the other -- I'm guessing that many of them collect circulation coins as well as NCLT issues.

For me, the issue has never really been cut-and-dried. The fact that they are government-backed "Legal Tender" (as was pointed out by some CCF members) makes it hard not to consider them "real" coins. On the flip side, the fact that essentially none of them are ever intended to be used as money at the denomination indicated on them helps make the case they are more "medal" than "coin." In any case, I decided a number of years ago that I would continue to collect select NCLTs alongside the early circulation silver dollars that I also collect -- it makes me happy and is the only way I can continue to collect silver dollars (my favorite!).

In the poll, I voted "8". I did so because I feel that while many NCLTs are legitimate coins, some of the mints around the world are abusing the definition of "coin" and are producing pure fantasy pieces that don't have even a tenuous link to past or present coins of circulation. They call them coins, but they are developed and issued more as a precious metal "product" than as money. So, my vote was less than a 10 to "protest" these abuses. I'm not going to cite specific examples, however, as it's not my place to determine the "validity" of another collector's pursuits.

There's room for all of us and plenty of collecting fun to go around! Enjoy!
Collecting history, one commemorative coin (or medal) at a time!
Original content (c) Commems, 2012-2014
Pillar of the Community
Australia
8710 Posts
 Posted 02/13/2012  12:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I wonder when the Mint will issue a commemorative for the

'10th Anniversary of the Formation of the Society for the Preservation of Wooden Toilet Seats', or the

'15th Anniversary of Mr Bean's Recognition of the Lesser God of Lemonade'?

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1702 Posts
 Posted 02/26/2012  12:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add canadian_coins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sel,

Wow. That is so hilarious.
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