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1820 Blacksmith Token - Info?

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Drsandman2
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 Posted 02/09/2012  5:29 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Howdy all!

Anyone recognize this? It looks like the old "HIBERNIA" coppers, but I know those were counterfeited often. I don't know anything about these blacksmith tokens. Has the date been reworked?

Thanks!


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 Posted 02/09/2012  5:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CheetahCats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I will check later tonight for you when I get back to my desk, and confirm whether it's a blacksmith token.

In the meantime, if you'd like to learn more about Blacksmith Tokens, you can peruse an article here: http://www.novanumismatics.com/arti...atics12.html
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 Posted 02/09/2012  5:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
CheetahC - Thanks very much! A whole new world to explore...
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 Posted 02/09/2012  5:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So after reading about the blacksmiths purposely making ill dies that create "worn" coins... this coin may actually be AU?

I also found this resource:

http://www.coins.nd.edu/ColCoin/Col...h.intro.html
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 Posted 02/09/2012  6:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found something that looks just like it, but not EXACTLY. Doesn't look like the same die to me.

http://home.golden.net/~eloker/pics...tandharp.jpg

http://home.golden.net/~eloker/tokn2.htm

http://www.coinsandcanada.com/forum...pic.php?t=13

Bust and Harp Token (BR-1012)
This is a brass Bust and Harp (ca. 1837?), antedated 1820.
Edited by Drsandman2
02/09/2012 6:10 pm
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 Posted 02/11/2012  07:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CheetahCats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I pulled my original copy of Howland Wood's article from 1910.

The reverse of the Wood-22 resembles your specimen, but the obverse doesn't match.

My recommendation is to get a copy of the Charleton Guide for Canadian Colonial Tokens. More recent classifications of the Blacksmith Token a varieties are included in the guide.

Here's a link to the item on Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Canadian-Colo...p/0889683212

If you decide to pursue Blacksmiths, I STRONGLY recommend obtaining the necessary books before pursuing.

As per grading of Blacksmiths -- indeed typical standards don't necessarily apply.
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 Posted 02/11/2012  11:09 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I've posted it on eBay in hopes that it can find a collector that may appreciate it more than I do!
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 Posted 02/12/2012  03:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cointagous to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at the 5th edition under Blacksmith imitations, the BL-35 is the closest I could find and was struck in 1820. The bust and harp look close but that is where the the similarities end. Different dies used, no date present, and there is a raised dot in the center of the harp among the strings. For comparison, the weight listed is 4.9 to 5.5 gr
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 Posted 02/12/2012  04:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CheetahCats to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Looking at the 5th edition under Blacksmith imitations, the BL-35 is the closest I could find and was struck in 1820. The bust and harp look close but that is where the the similarities end. Different dies used, no date present, and there is a raised dot in the center of the harp among the strings. For comparison, the weight listed is 4.9 to 5.5 gr


Yup. I know which one you're talking about -- I saw it in Howland Wood's write-up too.

I possess doubts as to the OP's specimen being an actual Blacksmith.
Edited by CheetahCats
02/12/2012 04:00 am
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 Posted 02/12/2012  1:35 pm  Show Profile Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its not a Blacksmith. Just a Bust & Harp type.

John Lorenzo
United States
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 Posted 02/12/2012  1:37 pm  Show Profile Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The next edition of the Charlton book Canadian Colonial Tokens will be updated dramtically with Blacksmith information.

JPL
U.S.
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 Posted 02/12/2012  7:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is it an imitation or counterfeit bust and harp type? The photos that I'm finding do not match. On my coin, the bottom of the harp is over the 8 and not the 2. Easiest way to tell.

Looks like I need to relist my coin after we sort this out.
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 Posted 02/13/2012  08:34 am  Show Profile Check colonialjohn's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add colonialjohn to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
None of the bust and harp types are blacksmiths. Period. But I am just one person. New B&H variety. There is a book on these beyond Charlton. Go there if you feel inclined.

John Lorenzo
United States
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 Posted 02/13/2012  09:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found this thread over in the Canadian forum. The coin posted matches the obverse die, but not the reverse. I'm into US classics, so this is not my territory.

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...IC_ID=110562


Thanks to everyone for their help. For fun, I'll weigh it and see what we get.
Edited by Drsandman2
02/13/2012 09:11 am
New Member
Brunei Darussalam
9 Posts
 Posted 07/02/2012  03:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Borneo1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One of 25+ counterfeits that circulated. Brass or copper. If you find an 1825, let me know.
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