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I think this may be BD

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 02/11/2012  5:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 02/11/2012  5:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Now you can share your opinions.
"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
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 Posted 02/11/2012  9:53 pm  Show Profile Check bobbyhelmet's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Try taking it out and letting it dry - perhaps the 'lightening' is only when its wet, when dry it may return to being darker.
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 Posted 02/11/2012  10:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not a pretty picture:



When it was dry, some parts of the orange were turning pink, as evidenced in the above photo, so I put it back into the water.
"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
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 Posted 02/11/2012  11:25 pm  Show Profile Check bobbyhelmet's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ouch!

It looks like the BD was rampant between the patina and the coin, sometimes this causes the patina to become very flaky and brittle, I've seen it a couple of times when cleaning coins. The ones I have had with this also had a funny smell about them, I know it sounds odd but was something I noticed.

If you compare the 'after' pic of the obverse with the 'before' pic you can see the areas that have peeled are the areas that looked like they had tiny green specks of dust on them. I think BD wise your coin was about to bloom! It wasn't on the surface it was breaking through the surface!

Not sure what to suggest, it looks like your patina is a goner whatever we do. I just hope the detail on the original surface is as good as what was on the patina as if the BD has been eating at it for a while it could be pitted. Just as it broke through the surface it could have been moving the other way too.

You only have two options really, one is to carry on and soak the coin until the BD is gone and hope whats left is not too much of a disappointment. The other option is to dry it extremely well and wax it thoroughly and hope the lack of oxygen slows the process. This is a bit of a temp fix as it always returns at some point.

I dont know about the chemicals that have been mentioned so cant comment.

It's always a bit depressing when this happens but doing nothing would just have delayed the inevitable for a few months or years.
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 Posted 02/11/2012  11:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well that's quite a let down... can't say I didn't try. Ah well, at least I take comfort knowing that there are many more nice Roman coins out there that I may come across.


Quote:
The other option is to dry it extremely well and wax it thoroughly and hope the lack of oxygen slows the process.
Unfortunately I don't have any Ren wax (if that's the wax you are referring to), so by default I'll have to keep it soaking. But before I do that, do you think heating it in the oven at 350 degrees °F (177 Celsius if that's what's used in the UK) for half an hour will rid it of the BD, or at least minimize the BD's effect?
"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
Edited by ValiantKnight
02/12/2012 12:08 am
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2012  12:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wouldn't Ren wax come off with acetone?
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 Posted 02/12/2012  12:16 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I've heard that before. I also think you can heat it off as well.
"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
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 Posted 02/12/2012  12:19 am  Show Profile Check bobbyhelmet's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add bobbyhelmet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
do you think heating it in the oven at 350 degrees °F for half an hour will rid it of the BD?


It wont rid it but will remove one of the catalysts that cause it (I personally dont think water is a cause just a catalyst and transporter). Its only really worth doing if your finished soaking and about to finish the treatment, ideally do it before waxing as moisture starts returning to the coin as soon as it comes out of the oven. No need to have the oven much hotter than 212F as the water will boil at this point.

When your finished soaking I would let it evaporate dry at room temp for 24hrs before the oven. The gunk (BD elements) between the coin and the patina will be waterlogged and a sudden change in temp could cause the remaining patina to crack and pop off.

This coin has BD very bad. Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet, drying and waxing now is an option but you will never have a stable coin. Ironically, and sadly perhaps, the only thing keeping the patina on is the BD, without it you have a void between that and the actual coin and removing it would make it so weak it could crumble away.

Not good news but we've probably all had one of these coins at some point, damned if you do and damned if you dont.

You could try to seal it in something airtight and have a think about it, again its just removing a catalyst.

I'm not saying this is the best solution but my view is a coin is pointless if its being eaten or not stable. I'd rather suffer the craters and risk of total loss and just get the treatment over with. What is left is what is left, be it OK or nothing at all.

Its very unlikely you could have done anything with this coin would have preserved it long term in the condition you received it.
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 Posted 02/12/2012  12:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Truly appreciate all the help and advice you've given me through this whole thread Bobby, thank you

I'll let it finish soaking, then I'll heat it up, and then put it in a 2x2 cardboard flip (the closest to airtite I have right now for coins). That's my plan from this point forward. I'll keep you all updated.

At least today wasn't a totally bad day numismatically for me. I got my Arcadius AE2 I posted in another thread
"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
Valued Member
Canada
93 Posts
 Posted 02/14/2012  3:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tevlon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sodium bicarbonate works great for BD. I just put some in a dish with distilled water and soak the coin. It can damage a weak patina if left too long though. I've had good and bad experiences. I would recommend soaking with NaHCO3 for a few hours then go back to plain distilled water. If there are still traces of BD then repeat but take it slow and be patient.
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 Posted 03/05/2012  3:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Update: after a few weeks of soaking in distilled water (changing it every couple of days), brushing it a few times, and 4 of what I like to call "oven treatments" (2 of them today), here is the Jovian now:

"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
Pillar of the Community
United States
4207 Posts
 Posted 03/05/2012  3:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Those black spots are where the BD was.
"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
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 Posted 03/05/2012  5:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I hope the coin is stabilized
Is the red color due to the oven treatments?
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 Posted 03/05/2012  5:38 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yeah, mostly. It was the initial soak in distilled that changed it red/orange, then with the oven treatments the red changed in hue to what it is now. After posting the picture I put it in the oven a couple more times just to be on the safe side and now it resides in a 2x2 that I have made as air-tite as I was able to make it.
"For as long as Belisarius lives, it is impossible for him to relinquish this city." - Roman general Belisarius, responding to a group of Gothic envoys, during the Gothic siege of Rome in 537 AD

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 238, Byzantine: 34, Post-Roman Germanic: 21
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