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The Power of the Lincoln Copper Cent!

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wulffy11
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 Posted 03/03/2012  7:04 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add wulffy11 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I still seem surprised that these aren't disappearing more quickly from circulation, being worth well over face value now for several years. For those who have silver, it is a hedge against inflation. I have been compelled that the Lincoln copper cents are going to eventually be a hedge as well. With gas in my area at $3.99/gallon, if you were able to pay that with the value of the metal in copper cents, according to (124) Not Allowed - Auto-Removed .com, gas would be $1.55/gallon! Talk about real money! I feel this gives a whole new perspective on saving those from circulation!

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 Posted 03/03/2012  7:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stewart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great Point
Things are definitely going to get interesting a lot faster than a lot of people think. With a bunch of States passing legislation to allow them to establish their own Gold and Silver based currency making it in to the main stream media. I can see where copper will also play a significant role in that shift
Edited by stewart
03/03/2012 7:12 pm
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 Posted 03/03/2012  7:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Drsandman2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I don't think it will be legal to melt copper pennies any time soon. In my opinion, there are far better ways to invest your money.
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 Posted 03/03/2012  8:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

John1
( I'm no pro, it's just my humble opinion )
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 Posted 03/03/2012  8:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add n9jig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Great Point
Things are definitely going to get interesting a lot faster than a lot of people think. With a bunch of States passing legislation to allow them to establish their own Gold and Silver based currency making it in to the main stream media. I can see where copper will also play a significant role in that shift


Please let us know what states have passed such legislation.
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 Posted 03/03/2012  8:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wvparadox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think most people just can't be bothered to search their change and then store the cents
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 Posted 03/03/2012  8:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mwr1550 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I think most people just can't be bothered to search their change and then store the cents



I do. Funny thing is I have never been a big penny collector. I have about a dozen rolls of wheat pennise my wife saved from when she was a bank teller. But I never took the time to learn much about pennies though. A while back I started saving the pre 83's I find and now have some family memebers saving for me as well. I guess I see a potential value in them since they aren't being made anymore.
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 Posted 03/03/2012  9:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tumbleweedtrumpet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In my area, I either get a lot or none. When they come, they come in bucket loads.
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 Posted 03/03/2012  9:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ghostrider to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Lately I've been finding a lot of copper pennies in CWR's. Don't know what's happening, but I'm happy. When I get the boxes home if the box weighs in around 16 lbs that's a good indication that there is a lot of copper there.
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 Posted 03/03/2012  9:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stewart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Please let us know what states have passed such legislation.




Utah was the first State to pass the legislation last March, since then
the number has grown to 13 states so far that have similar legislation in various stages. This has been mostly neglected by the main stream media until Feb. 3rd when CNN did this story about it and tries quite hard to influence people in the last paragraph that states taking such action is nuts and bad for the country by calling it funny money.
Absolutely Hilarious

Here is a link to the article
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/03/pf/...es/index.htm

and a link to an article where Andover wants to be able to pay their employees partially in silver,
http://money.cnn.com/2012/02/03/pf/...es/index.htm

People Everywhere are absolutely Tired of the Unlimited money printing that devalues every Dollar you have, constantly leading to you having to have more of those dollars to buy the same amount of goods.
The Price of Gas and Food has NOT gone up, The Value of the Dollar is continually going DOWN
Edited by stewart
03/03/2012 9:27 pm
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 Posted 03/04/2012  01:43 am  Show Profile Check BadThad's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I admit, I have a copper hoard! LOL

The cent and the nickel are the only US coins found in circulation that are intrinsically backed by their metal content.
Lincoln Cent Lover!
VERDI-CAREā„¢ All Metal Conservation Fluid
http://www.verdichem.com
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 Posted 03/04/2012  06:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add n9jig to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Actually NO state has passed any law creating their own currency, at least according to the CNN article quoted. Some have considered it but none have passed, and even if they did they would be unconstitutional. The Utah law allowed people to use existing US Mint bullion "coins" like the Silver Eagle as payment at their metal value instead of face value. You don't need a law for that in private commerce, they just allowed you to do it to pay bills to the State.

There is a huge difference between some legislator or governor proposing a bill and it actually passing and being signed into law. Wyoming had a proposal to create a navy and obtain an aircraft carrier. Problem was they don't have any place to put it, like the governor said "We are gonna need a bigger lake". Most of the bills mentioned are lunatic rantings of fringe players trying to get TV time. They were saying the same thing in the 60's and 70's, during the Depression and the financial upheavals of the late 1800's.



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 Posted 03/04/2012  07:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add VetStudent to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i haven't felt like its worth actively CRHing for them, but I certainly save the ones I get back in change
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 Posted 03/04/2012  09:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stewart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
n9jig,
I think it is unconstitutional for the states to create any currency other than gold and silver coin.
I have heard discussions of being able to deposit your gold and silver with a state bank and being issued a debit type card to be able to make everyday transactions at your local store and gas stations and such. Thereby avoiding unconstitutional printing of paper money by the states. That is just one idea.
Those writing the bills are not even sure how it will be eventually be implemented. But they know the first thing they have to do is make it legal to use gold and silver in everyday commerce. The news media are the only ones jumping to the conclusion that there will be printing presses set up in every state to print paper money. More than likely the press is being influenced to put out such ridiculous stories to spook the public by those that do not want such legislation to pass. Or by the owners of these corporate media outlets that are more than willing to put out stories to back the political power that helps them the most financially. The news here in the U.S. has not been about telling the truth about any given situation in a very long time. It is about influencing opinion of the population.
Honestly I think there are some in these legislative bodies that are putting forth these types of bills in hopes that they become law to just lay the ground work ahead of time in preparation in case something drastic does happen with the U.S. Dollar.
Believe it or not there are some people in positions of power on various levels including local and state government that actually do have the best interest of the people in mind. It just happens I think that they are out numbered by those that only look to serve their interest and those of their friends.
There are some in those positions that have been voted into offices of state and local government by the people that actually take their Oath of Office seriously. Some of these people understand basic economics and certain facts.

In the entire history of mankind there has never been a purely fiat currency that has survived.
Every single one without exception has failed.

It is Always just a matter of when.

Give a group of people of any political persuasion known throughout history the ability to print paper currency without the backing of precious metal. Or the ability to mint coinage made of readily available base metals. And they Always end up exactly where we are today. With MASSIVE money printing that devalues the money supply until it is worthless. And the entire financial system implodes on itself. Always to the severe detriment of those that not in the top end of the given society. Because they are led to believe by whatever means are necessary by their leaders that everything is just fine. While the leaders and others that know what is coming quietly move their wealth into things that are of real value, Gold, Silver, Land, Live Stock, and in the last century, Oil and other commodities that are of real actual use to the population.
While the general population that was told everything was fine suffers devastating loss.

It gives me hope that there are some that are trying to ease the transition that is coming from a purely fiat currency to one back by gold and silver

History does not always repeat itself exactly, but it darn sure rhymes

Just my humble opinion
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 Posted 03/04/2012  10:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stewart to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
n9jig said
Wyoming had a proposal to create a navy and obtain an aircraft carrier. Problem was they don't have any place to put it, like the governor said "We are gonna need a bigger lake". Most of the bills mentioned are lunatic rantings of fringe players trying to get TV time

One more small point that is not being mentioned is in the bill in Wyoming was looking into obtaining Strike Aircraft and Aircraft Carrier. That was an amendment to the original bill added in by state Rep. Kermit Brown, R-Laramie. my guess is an attempt to turn the original bill which was very basic and very passable into to an embarrassment that would play very well on the press to get it defeated.

Original Bill
Put forth by state Rep. David Miller, R-Riverton
It would create a state-run government continuity task force, which would study and prepare Wyoming for potential catastrophes, from disruptions in food and energy supplies to a complete meltdown of the federal government.
The task force would look at the feasibility of Wyoming issuing its own alternative currency, if needed.


And the Amendment purposely turned what was a good piece of legislation into a ridiculous piece legislation that would that would make something as basic as being prepared for a catastrophe, Which is governments job in the first place. Into a circus side show to keep it from passing

As mentioned above there are good people in the places of power who actually believe in their Oath of Office. And are working hard for the people that elected them. And there are those who's only thoughts are of obtaining and maintaining power and wealth at what ever cost to the people who put them there in the first place.

Edited by stewart
03/04/2012 10:17 am
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 Posted 03/04/2012  10:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JSH to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
On the original topic of copper cents:
As others have said, congress will have to authorize the melting of copper cents in order for people to realize the full metal value. The reason that 90% silver coins trade near the metal value is because anyone can melt that coin realize the full value. That is why coin dealers, jewelers, and cash-for-gold shops will take those coins. On the other had, copper cents currently sell for about 1.5 cents our about 60% of the metal value. So yes I keep the ones I find in change. I don't actively sort large quantities.

On the topic of currencies backed by commodities:

There is a reason that no country in the world is still on a gold or silver standard. It does not work in a global economy. Unless everyone in the world agrees to move to a commodity backed currency, the individual countries that do are at an economic disadvantage. This happened to the US after European countries dropped the gold standard after World War II. European countries would buy up US Dollars on the world market and then redeem them for gold. This caused a net outflow of gold from the US to the rest of the world that was unsustainable.

Even if the entire world decided to move to a commodity backed currency there would still be problems. Take a gold standard. The entire amount of money in the world would be restricted to the amount of gold that could be extracted. You essentially would limit the supply of money while the world population would continue to increase. The is a textbook case for deflation. Deflation is good for those that have money and bad for those that owe money. Global governments have trillions of dollars of debt. That debt would become increasingly expensive to pay at time passes. Who pays national debt? The people do. That means at a collective level our debt would become harder harder to pay off. The gold standard would be great for China but disastrous for the US. Again you would have a huge outflow of wealth from the US to the rest of the world.

That is deflation at the national level. At the local level the average person gets hit too. Take most families biggest asset - their house. With inflation, that mortgage payment becomes effectively smaller as time passes. I remember my parents mortgage payment was comically small when they made their last payment 20 years later. You have the opposite effect with deflation. A mortgage payment would become more and more expensive as time passed since the payment would be fixed but your wages decreasing. At the same time your house's value is also shrinking.

I find it interesting that the idea of commodity based money is supported mainly buy those that it would hurt the most. The average person in the United States is holding a large amount of debt. However they support an economic model that would make that debt harder and harder to pay. Again, deflation is good for those that have money / bad for those that owe money.

On the topic of US States and commodity backed currencies:
States have the same problem that nations do. Regardless of constitutional issues of state currencies, any state that created a commodity backed currency would get crushed by the rest of the states. Say Wyoming created a currency based on silver. Why would any silver investor pay a premium to buy a Silver Eagle from the US Mint when they could buy the Wyoming equivalent at face? You would have people driving to Wyoming with bags of dollars and driving out with silver coins.

If they tried to prevent that outflow by banning the export of their currency out of the state you have other problems. You essentially have a local currency that can only be used in Wyoming. Now a Wyoming resident would have to pay a premium to buy products and services from other states because you would need to pay an intermediary to exchange currencies.
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