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GOLD ROMAN OR GREEK COIN | Antoninus Pius aureus

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New Member
United States
4 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  7:16 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add imjustakid97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

This coin may be either roman or Greek and is gold. It tests as 22k and weighs 6.1 grams. I think it may be from the 3rd century. I want to know which emperors picture is on the front, is it rare, and why is the picture of the Colosseum on the reverse like no other picture I have seen before? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks!





Identified - moved to Ancients forum - Sap

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Canada
1610 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  7:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Apollo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This would be an Antonius Pius Denarius from 161 AD . Though I don't think they made any out of gold.
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11226 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  8:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This would be an Antonius Pius Denarius from 161 AD. Though I don't think they made any out of gold.

Roman gold coins the same size as a denarius were called an "aureus".

Aurei with this design were struck in the name of emperor Antoninus Pius after he had died in 161 AD and been officially deified by the Senate. "DIVVS ANTONINVS" translates to "the divine Antoninus".

On the reverse is not the Colosseum, but a structure usually defined as a "funeral pyre". We don't really know for sure what it is; it might even be a depiction of the mausoleum of Hadrian (since drastically remodelled into the Castel Sant'Angelo in Rome), the building in which Antoninus' remains were interred.

Unfortunately, 6.1 grams is a little too light for a genuine aureus; at the time of Antoninus Pius and his successor Marcus Aurelius (under whom this coin was struck) an aureus was supposed to weigh about 7.2 grams. It's also too heavy to be a denarius that's been gold-plated. On that basis I would be suspicious of this coin's authenticity. On the plus side, it isn't listed on the FORVM fake database; there are some examples of the same type, such as this one, though they are noticeably different in layout and style.

Maybe your coin has simply been clipped; this example on acsearch certainly has plenty of room for clipping around the edge. You can also see from that page what a genuine coin similar to yours (though in better condition) sold for in 2008.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Canada
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 Posted 03/08/2012  8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Apollo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Sap. I was going to edit saying it wasn't a denarius, but my dang internet keeps crashing and you had already posted.
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United States
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 Posted 03/08/2012  8:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add imjustakid97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thank you! I just have a few more questions. Is it common to find clipped coins, like were they clipped in ancient times, or recently? Also, I know it is probably against forum rules, but I was wondering how greatly would this affect the value and what would be the value?

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 Posted 03/08/2012  9:08 pm  Show Profile Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
to the community.

It's very difficult to say with certainty from a picture if the coin is real or not. The weight isn't correct as Sap stated but that could be due to it being clipped which IMO from what I can see is a good possibility. How did you come by it?
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 Posted 03/09/2012  08:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tights24 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Also, I know it is probably against forum rules,


Hello Imjustakid. Asking for a value is not against the rules, and if you would think it is, why would you post it without reading the rules first?

Having said that, I did remove the link in your last post since it is against forum rules for new members to post links without staff approval.

Oh, and I forgot my manners. Welcome!
Confucius say "The man who asks a question is a fool for a minute, the man who does not ask is a fool for life."


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Australia
8868 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2012  09:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
imjustakid97: Welcome to the CCF, it's nice to have you aboard.

I agree with Sap's comments.

My feeling is doubtful, but not sure. So far, the balance of my feeling is that it is genuine.

The first thing that struck me was that the detail on the portrait and the funeral pyre is a little soft, which could suggest a second generation die struck copy from an original.

Test to see if it is a gold plated lead copy. The weight suggests this this is worth trying.
With a gold coin, try bending it with your fingers. I have identified a gold plated lead copy that way. A gold coin will not bend with that small amount of force.

Provenance of high value ancients is important. You need to satisfy yourself with a verifiable history of how it came to you. I keep all of the documentation of all high value ancients that come into my collection.
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 Posted 03/09/2012  2:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add giano to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi,in my opinion this aureus is a fake.
Remember that roman gold coins have always a definite and superb style of the dies,aureus is at the top of roman coinage.
Looking at this coin I say that the portrait on the obverse isn't totally in the correct style there's something wrong in emperor's hair....even the reverse is approximated as particular and I can't see from this pic the signs of the die struck around letters,maybe with a lens you can see better.finally this coin seems porous and the holes near the letters "TIO" on the reverse make me think it can be a fusion.
However I may be wrong and this is only my feeling.
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United States
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 Posted 03/09/2012  6:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add imjustakid97 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thank you all for answering, and the reason I thought evaluations were against forum rules (since many forums have this rule), and I only asked since some people give braod estimates. Again, thank you all for answering!
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Australia
8868 Posts
 Posted 03/09/2012  6:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
giano: IF it is a fake, I suspect that the original may have been a denarius.
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 Posted 03/09/2012  6:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Looking at this coin I say that the portrait on the obverse isn't totally in the correct style there's something wrong in emperor's hair
While I know nothing about these coins, I can see Giano's point--the portrait is less refined from those I found on acsearch. Of course, we always hope a collector's coins are real.

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United States
565 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2012  12:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add MartiVltori to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This particular coin has been faked several times. I haven't found a die/flan match so far but the style doesn't look quite right and the features look awfully soft. Can you see any casting seam on the side?
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Australia
8868 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2012  02:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Flan diameter for a denarius is quite often slightly less than an aureus for the same period.
Unfortunately, this knowledge is an unreliable diagnostic tool at best.
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United States
1541 Posts
 Posted 03/10/2012  08:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
While I agree with sel_69l in every other way on this coin, I'll put more value into larger flan diameter, full weight, better engraving and more careful striking. Aureii were a lot of money. They were made more carefully using better dies (occasionally we see a denarius that may have used aureus dies but less often the reverse). The OP coin is not even good style for a denarius. There is no way it is genuine. I suspect the dies are not even copied directly from an ancient coin but are made by a modern engraver. It is not unknown for modern fakers to produce coins in more than one metal which might account for a light weight gold coin but I do not have an example from these dies to offer.

Seriously, no one should buy an aureus from anyone except a dealer both knowledgeable and trustworthy enough. This is not a flea market purchase to consider.
Formerly jwharper
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 Posted 03/10/2012  08:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
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