Question on 1oz. Gold Maple Leafs

Indian1,
.999 is not 22k they are both 24k, 22k is .9167 fineness.

I'm no expert on maples but I have a few fractionals, all designated .9999, and the oldest of those is 1986.

edit: a quick check on Wiki shows maples as being .999 fineness for the years 1979-1982 and .9999 from then on. I'm sure someone on here better versed in these coins will be able to verify whether that is indeed so.

Norm

I've had dealers pay more for the .9999 and .99999 than for the .999. Anybody else experience that?

O.K. Thanks for the info. The Maple leaf is 24K then.
Still out on the .999 and .9999 as being the same though.
The spot price of gold is actually based on 22K. .999 silver rounds actually have some copper/zinc. in them for extra hardness to produce them as coins but are marked as .999
Did not realize that the fineness numbers on gold and silver
were different.

Okay... a while ago, the best processes to refine gold could only do so to one part in a thousand. In other words, if you had a thousand granules of sugar, one of them would be a flyspeck and you would have 999/1000 pure sugar... your sugar would be .999 fine.

Now, with modern technology being what it is, we can refine to .9999 fine... if sugar, only one flyspeck in ten thousand. Or even .99999 fine... one flyspeck in one hundred thousand.

Back to gold... ALL of these designations .999 , .9999 , .99999 refer to pure gold. 24 karat pure, or 24 parts out of 24 parts. Typically, you will never see 23 47/48ths (<read twenty three and fourty seven fourty eigths) or some such other bizarre fraction karat gold... the 24 karat deignation being old and entrenched as pure gold.

So, refining gold to purer and purer specs is a technology where the method to measure/quantify the purity must also keep pace with refining.

Spot gold price IS based on pure gold... 24 karat... .999 fine or better... better being more nines purity.

When we are getting to all these nines fine, some infitesimal, real tiny amount of dirt is in the gold... but the reality is, that for any purpose it is considered pure gold... 24kt.

Same for silver... .999 fine would only allow for one one thousandth of some impurity... impurity, not a hardener. One one thousanth of anything would not alloy as a hardener.

Fineness for gold and silver is quantitatively the same for both gold and silver. So, one troy ounce of .999 fine silver will weigh one troy ounce. One troy ounce of gold(or silver) at .999, .9999,or .99999 fine will weigh one troy ounce.

22kt gold is 22 parts out of 24 parts pure gold, or 22 divided by 24 to get the ratio of gold by weight... which is .917 fine... 91.7% pure, so multiply the total weight by 91.7 to get the pure gold weight of a 22kt gold item.

>>> edited >>>... to correct ramblings, spelling, ramblings... did I say ramblings

24K = archaic way to denote/guarantee gold content prior to modern ability to refine essentially pure gold

.999 .9999 or .99999 matters very little to value. Mintage and condition dictates the value of GML much Much more. The rest falls on spot value. 1oz of gold = 1oz of gold, it doesn't matter if that 1oz gold is found in 2oz of 50% (14K) or 1oz of .9999 gold. Unless, ofcourse your 14K gold is 50% gold and 50 Platinum :)

Gold Maple Leafs were first minted in 1979, in .999 purity. It was not until 1982 that the RCM started to produce GML in .9999 purity

I didn't think quality or mintage would have a great impact on bullion. Proof collector coins maybe, or silver bullion maybe more?

[slightly off topic]

Speaking of gold bullion, I just looked at the current auctions on eBay -- $50 1oz (spot dropped by $24 is at $1583 today http://www.monex.com/liveprices).

1980 $1595
1984 $1696 !
1984 $1625
1997 $1609

Buyer:
Average sale price = $1631 (auctions still on for a few more hours).
Average shipping = $15
Out of pocket = $1646

Seller:
Estimated eBay fees @9% = $150
Estimated PayPal fees @2.9% = $48
Take home = $1433

More fees if using eBay shipping, possible insertion fees, extra pictures, bold, and all the other gimmicks.

Why sell bullion on eBay? here : http://bullion.nwtmint.com/gold_mapleleaf.php

Buyer pays $1644.00
Seller gets $1576.00

With the ridiculous buyer protection and PayPal chargebacks selling on eBay makes no sense to me. Buyers can get a fair deal on Auction Style. So no wonder there are so few of them.

I am not an expert in bullion/gold -- did I miss anything? Maybe my calculations are wrong?

Yeah! You got it. The .999 or better coins/bars/bullion also have a tax/duty/tarriff advantage if importing gold/silver... depending on where you live, these charges can be significantly lower on pure gold/silver, than on alloyed gold/silver.

I don't run the world(yet), but pure gold and silver is not taxed as much as alloyed gold and silver. The Buffalo was meant to compete with the Maple Leaf, to take advantage of this lower tax rate... then of course other countries have their three nines or better competing gold coins/bullion.

Prior, most gold bullion coins were indeed 22kt... Krugerrand, Eagles, et al. Krugerrands alloyed with copper to harden them; they did expect to circulate somewhat. Eagles with silver/copper (< can't find my ref to verify rite now), but now gold is not expected to circulate and as pure as pure need be is... bullion.

@IBGolden: I stand corrected 12K = 50%

@Canadian_coins: you are absolutely right. Makes no sense selling gold bullion on eBay. Where seller can look to at least break even with spot is with the rarer or semi-numismatic GMLs straddling the line between commemorative and bullion. These include fractional sets, hologram, colorized, privy marked, and .99999 carded GMLs. I've had good luck selling a few 1989 PF GMLs for $300-400 over spot