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1967 Kennedy Half Dollar - Wrong Planchet / Off-Metal Error

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United States
162 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2012  06:03 am Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Hello everyone, got another error coin. I originally thought it was a thin planchet, but I no longer think so and here are my reasons. The coin only weighs 6.9 grams for starters whereas the other coin I have to show in comparison weighs 11.6 grams. Most thin planchets I see are usually a gram or 2 less, not almost 5. Also, the coin does not seem like it is silver whatsoever, doesn't have the sound or feel. To my knowledge, all 1967 Kennedy's were silver so it's odd that this one doesn't seem like it. The coin is not only thinner, but it also slightly smaller as shown in the picture. I cropped the error coin and placed it over the non-error and placed the layer on exclusion so it would show up black so you could see how much larger the normal one is.



And here's a side view, sorry it's blurry my camera doesn't take pictures close up.



EDIT: For those of you who like to look at coins up close and/or have bad eye sight.




Edited by TheCentMan
10/23/2012 06:16 am
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 Posted 10/23/2012  09:29 am  Show Profile Check macmercury's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is interesting!

I wonder it maybe a planchet supposedly used for some denomination in other country coinage, the collar is just slightly smaller and doesn't look temper with.

Hopefully Mr. Diamond chime in to this one, he can give an explanation better than many of us here.
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 Posted 10/23/2012  10:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think that the possibility of forgery cannot be ruled out.

Although the strike looks sharp enough in most places, the surface behind kennedy's chin appears to be a bit rough. The edge milling seems to be a bit dull as well. The rim is a bit short on the left hand side in the picture, so perhaps that is also where the milling would be at it's dullest.

Quesion: Is the milling dull around the entire coin, or is it much sharper in some places?
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 Posted 10/23/2012  3:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Broken-Coin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@ TheCentMan
Since you say that your half Dollar looks like there is no silver content and severly underweight, I believe your 1967 Kennedy half dollar was struck on stock intended for either a quarter or dime stock that contained no silver... I know in the past I have read articles on blanks punched out on wrong stock in the late 60's, but never really paid attention to it...
Mike Diamond will know for sure, but wrong stock planchet is my guess...
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 Posted 10/23/2012  5:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This couldn't be a dime or a quarter, as it weighs 6.9 grams which is more than a dime or quarter. Plus, it's too big to have been struck on one of those. The sharpness of the coin appears the same all over it to me, but I'm no expert and the coin is a little dirty. Upon further inspection, I just found out that the coin in question is almost the exact thickness of a dime.

Also, just FYI, the other coin I showed is a Proof whereas the other isn't so don't get too confused on the detail difference between the two.
Edited by TheCentMan
10/23/2012 5:22 pm
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 Posted 10/23/2012  5:37 pm  Show Profile Check biokemist6's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This couldn't be a dime or a quarter

Not struck on a dime or quarter planchet, struck on dime or quarter metal stock with blanks punched to the appropriate half dollar size. This scenario is quite plausible and there are quite a few known examples of wrong stock errors but the problem is that I am not seeing any traces of the copper core on the edge

Try the tissue test on the 1967 Half and compare to your 1970, that should tell you if it has any silver content or not. The tissue test can be fooled by silver plated coins but your shows no signs of being plated so that would be the first diagnostic test to try out.
ANA R-3151318
Edited by biokemist6
10/23/2012 5:39 pm
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 Posted 10/23/2012  5:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree with bio, right size punch, wrong size stock.

Could it be from leftover stock from before the change to clad?
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 Posted 10/23/2012  6:33 pm  Show Profile Check biokemist6's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add biokemist6 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is what I am wondering, maybe it was struck on 90% silver stock because there was quite a bit of mintage overlap due to the date freeze and simultaneous production of CuNi clad and silver. If it passes the tissue test, the next one would be measuring Specific Gravity which would indicate whether it is 90% silver or not.
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Edited by biokemist6
10/24/2012 12:55 pm
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 Posted 10/23/2012  8:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry I misread that you said stock, my apologies. I did the tissue test and from what it looks like to me, it isn't silver. I'll post the image below to get your opinions though since you know more what you're talking about. Also, thanks for the replies and the help so far everyone.

The coin on the left is the Error in question, the one on the right being the 1970 Silver coin.
To me, the error coins look quite darker than the silver coin.



Also, I've checked the entire rim of the coin and there is no trace of a copper core if there is one. This coin has me baffled.
Edited by TheCentMan
10/23/2012 8:03 pm
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 Posted 10/23/2012  8:18 pm  Show Profile Check macmercury's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Its most likely off-metal like the Quarter that I think similar to Morgan-Dad found with his 1996-D quarter, one of the more interesting topic here's the link
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United States
162 Posts
 Posted 10/23/2012  8:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hmmmm, that's interesting. Any ideas of what it could have been struck on? Also, thanks for the link! Looks like it's going to be a great read already. :)
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 Posted 10/24/2012  12:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it's U.S. stock then most likely dime stock sheets.
Not silver I would say. Green showing on the surface.
Only other thing may be to check if any foreign coins
of that thickness and just a tad smaller in diameter than a U.S.
half were stuck at the Philly mint in 1967.
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 Posted 10/24/2012  12:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just to add. To the best of my knowledge no foreign stock was ever used in any U.S. mint to strike foreign coins. Just foreign planchets were used. So maybe a leftover or current
foreign planchet in this case. If so, just have to match up
the planchets dimensions with this coin.
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United States
162 Posts
 Posted 10/24/2012  02:08 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TheCentMan to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Took some time to look up foreign coins minted in Philly during the period and found a few that come close, but the diameter is off. My coin is just a hair under 30mm. Could it be possible that it was pressed onto a smaller diameter planchet and flattened out to be almost 30mm? That could account for the fact that it's so thin I assume.

Here's some foreign coins from the Philly mint that are very similar:

1921-1972 El Salvador 10 Centavos - CuNi (7g 26mm diameter)
1952-1985 El Salvador 10 Centavos - Copper-Nickel-Zinc (German Silver) 7.1g
1965-1978 Costa Rica 50 Centimos - CuNi (7.1g 26mm diameter)
1963-1979 Israel 1/2 Lira - CuNi (6.8g 24.5mm diameter)

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 Posted 10/24/2012  11:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are a number of puzzling aspects about this coin. The coin is significantly undersized but the edge looks fully, if somewhat weakly, reeded. That's impossible. Part of the edge should lack reeding. A coin that is weakly struck can be ever-so-slightly undersized and still have reeding, since the metal doesn't reach the depths of the grooves in the working face of the collar. However, the size reduction in this coin seems incompatible with a normal-size planchet and incompatible with full reeding.

The peripheral letters show no metal flow. Metal flow is generally what you see when a coin is struck on an undersized planchet.

A coin this thin should ordinarily show a weak strike. But the strike here appears normal.

The design rim is thin but sharp. A coin struck on an undersized planchet or struck on a thin planchet should have a poorly-defined design rim at least along part of the periphery.

It's possible that this started out as a genuine half dollar, the edge was shaved off, and then a fresh set of false reeding was applied. However, the severe weight loss is incompatible with this scenario. Instead, this could be a well-executed counterfeit. It definitely needs careful study. If you'd like to send it to me for an examination and a possible write-up in Coin World, contact me at mdia1 at aol dot com. -- Mike Diamond
Error coin writer and researcher.
Edited by mikediamond
10/24/2012 12:00 pm
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 Posted 10/24/2012  12:49 pm  Show Profile Check macmercury's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add macmercury to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There would be your answer TheCentMan!

I would send it to Mr. Diamond for a professional review.
Good Luck.
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