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Pillar of the Community
United States
4364 Posts |
Just for fun, I'll commence this thread with a little limerick .... A Punch Drunk CollectorThere once lived a guy in a man-cave,
And counterstamped coins he did crave.
He'd study their mystery,
Then write of their history,
For others to see, seek and save.   This particular GILBERT counterstamp, in italics, was unknown to authors Brunk and Rulau. Great as their now twenty year old works were, there today remain many hundreds, if not thousands, of counterstamped coins that await positive attribution. Also, many of the attributions they and/or their contributors cited were not proven positive. Many were probable, possible or potential in nature. Being a mystery-lover, I've studied counterstamps and pursued the making of positive attributions for over forty years now. This has long been among the more compelling avenues of numismatics for me, and I'd encourage other collectors to engage in this pursuit. For starters, what do you guys think of the stamp? Impressions? |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
20693 Posts |
Your counterstamp is impressive, ExoGuy. Interesting choice of coins, too.
It took me a few minutes to find this hallmark.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
4364 Posts |
Good job, Hondo. The hallmark signature-style is telling of a silversmith.
As for the host coin, it's a Spanish one real piece. These early world coins then freely circulated in abundance in the colonies and well into the nineteenth century. The counterstamp, being that of an American silversmith, tells us that this coin was stateside.
Edited by ExoGuy
09/28/2025 2:22 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20693 Posts |
Yes, a 1 Real minted in Mexico.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Moderator
United States
33739 Posts |
Very interesting @exo and thx for posting. In addition to that hallmark, I'm wondering about the two troughs (one on each side). Are those little gouges where a sample of silver was harvested or counterstamps in their own right? Thx.
Sorry re-reading your original post. You asked for our impressions about the counterstamp. I find it odd that the final letter ends outside of the box that largely surrounds the name. Really that whole right side is a bit different as it has a border, but one that protrudes a bit too high and also has a ragged edge in places. I don't know enough about these things to know if that is unusual though.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4364 Posts |
Hi Spence .... I find the troughs puzzling, myself. That said, I doubt that the metal was being harvested in that manner. Typically the coins were simply clipped for that purpose. I've a few pieces like that, including another one real piece. Judging from the coin's heavy wear, it was likely a pocket piece or a fob that was often handled. If the latter, that might explain the obverse/reverse troughs; a clamp of sorts, perhaps?
To my experience, it's not uncommon to see one end of a bar c/s appear much stronger than the other; this, be they on a coin or a piece of silverware. I'll post some more pics tomorrow, prior to relating the backstory I found.
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Moderator
United States
171009 Posts |
Fantastic and thank you for sharing!  |
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Moderator
United States
77073 Posts |
very nice ExoGuy! Both the coin and the limerick
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4364 Posts |
Thanks, jbuck & Dearborn. This posting is another humble effort of mine to keep U.S. counterstamp collecting on the radar for other collectors to consider. True study of this genre today remains in its infancy. Once I suspected this c/s was likely a silversmith's hallmark, I visited my one of my favored website for this occupation .... https://www.americansilversmiths.or...hs/84267.htm This effort netted a slam-dunk, positive attribution to silversmith William W. Gilbert of NY City. Note the pictured matching hallmark. Had I not so quickly lucked-out online, I'd have turned to my personal library of early American artisans. Pictured below is Gilbert's matching hallmark on a silver spoon ....  Here's a portrait of William by artist James Sharples ....  Making the connections and finding this info really brings life to the c/s. Stay tuned. There's more to follow. Edited by ExoGuy
09/29/2025 10:18 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20693 Posts |
Looking forward to more of this fascinating topic, ExoGuy! Quote:
it's not uncommon to see one end of a bar c/s appear much stronger than the other; I have a fish counterstamp tool that I use to mark coins that I distribute in change (just a quirk). It's quite challenging to get the stamp perfectly level and well-struck - much more so than you would think. And you really get only one shot at it. Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Moderator
United States
171009 Posts |
Quote:
This posting is another humble effort of mine to keep U.S. counterstamp collecting on the radar for other collectors to consider. True study of this genre today remains in its infancy. Quote:
Making the connections and finding this info really brings life to the c/s. Stay tuned. There's more to follow. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4364 Posts |
@ Hondo .... There's definitely a knack required when it comes to applying c/s's. Here's a little write-up I did on Gilbert .... William W. Gilbert, silversmith, was christened in NY City in early 1746. His father, William Gilbert, 1718-1797, was also a silversmith. Wm. W. began a concurrent career in politics in 1782, having then been appointed an alderman for six years. He continued to ply his trade in a Broadway shop, joining the Gold and Silversmiths' Society in 1786. He was listed in city directories through 1804, working as a silversmith. Between 1788 and 1793, he served as an assemblyman. Thereafter, he devoted more time to his craft, producing many fine works of art. In 1809, he returned to politics, serving as a state senator into 1812. He died on February 14, 1832. In 1770, Gilbert's shop was burglarized. Below is a pic of an ad he placed in the New-York Journal in August that year, offering a reward. Note the variety of items lost, having an estimated value of 150 British pounds. (Also note the use of f's for s's in the print). I found no report of the thieves ever having been caught.  Stay tuned, there's more to come, tomorrow .... |
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Moderator
United States
171009 Posts |
Very interesting! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20693 Posts |
Wow, the thief / thieves hauled off quite a load of Mr. Gilbert's goods.  Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
20693 Posts |
Quote:
There's definitely a knack required when it comes to applying c/s's. I wonder if they practiced on coins before applying a c/s on a fine piece.
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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Moderator
United States
33739 Posts |
Hey that is fascinating @exo! I'm really looking forward to further information about Mr. Gilbert.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Replies: 24 / Views: 1,765 |
Posted 09/28/2025 2:15 pm
