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help.. are all these coins made of silver?

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Valued Member
Philippines
120 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2008  03:43 am Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add baguiobookstore to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

hi! just wanna ask for help about the coins I've got...pictures below are like those of my coins (same date, almost same appearances) but not silver, because of their color..

just wanna know if these coins are all made of silver because what I've got looks like brass-bronze coins..some say it might be their toning but I think otherwise.. could be my coins fakes?

i've weight the 1903 french indo-chine coin and it's 26.5 grams.. about the other one it came lately so I don't know its weight...

thank you..


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-JAPANESE-CHIN...SU_W0QQitemZ150209929612QQihZ005QQcategoryZ3391QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting


http://cgi.ebay.com/FRENCH-INDO-CHI...NC_W0QQitemZ280195260678QQihZ018QQcategoryZ257QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Edited by baguiobookstore
01/25/2008 03:46 am
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Australia
11292 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2008  04:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The coin in the first auction, "Chinese/Japanese", is almost certainly a fake, and yours most likely is, too. The design is of a scarce 1 tael coin from Chihli, KM/Y# 74. The "34th year of Kuang Hsu" equates to 1908, which was not a year taels were struck. A tael should be larger and heavier than a dollar; 51.2 grams, according to Krause.

The French Indochina piastre is also a common target for the copymakers, especially in Vietnam, even though genuine ones are fairly common. If it looks brassy, it's almost certainly a fake. The weight for this one should be exactly 27 grams; your weight of 26 grams might be within tolerance, if it's well worn. Personally, I steer clear from FIC piastres for sale by anybody unless they're an expert in South-east Asian coins.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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United States
14128 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2008  08:59 am  Show Profile Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The first coin is without a doubt a fake. As to the second coin the photo is grainy so it's a bit harder to say but I think it's OK.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2008  09:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add halfabustisbetter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I agree that the first is fake. The second looks real but whizzed beyond collectability.
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United States
5318 Posts
 Posted 01/25/2008  2:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KurtS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
WE WERE TOLD THAT THIS COIN WAS JAPANESE BUT WE ARE NOT SURE


Uh...good guess! I'll bet a stack of fake Trade dollars this is Chinese, and a bit more recent strike.
Edited by KurtS
01/25/2008 2:55 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
3284 Posts
 Posted 01/26/2008  4:51 pm  Show Profile Check swamperbob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For what it is worth I will add my two cents.

Both coins appear to be forgeries - even the eBay auction. The Chinese coin is a Fantasy production as Sap indicated but even the Indo China Piastre has a collar seam that makes it very unbelievable.
Valued Member
Philippines
120 Posts
 Posted 01/27/2008  05:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add baguiobookstore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
thanks to all of you.. i'll try to post the pics of my coins as soon as my connection would be better..

nice day!
Valued Member
Philippines
120 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  12:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add baguiobookstore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
howdy!

these are my coins..

could you tell me if its authentic?

http://cgi.ebay.ph/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...12218&ih=008

http://cgi.ebay.ph/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...12708&ih=008



http://cgi.ebay.ph/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...11665&ih=008
about this Trade dollar.. I think its authentic because when I compared it to the other coins sold at eBay they look exactly similar from each other.. apart from it, its weight is 26.9grams. but I'm an amateur so I am not so sure, incase its not authentic, help me know why...



thanks! :-)
Edited by baguiobookstore
02/17/2008 12:10 am
New Member
China
13 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  01:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add drt100 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

The Chinese Coin:
When Zhang Zhidong was appointed Governor-General of Hunan and Hubei in 1893 (year 19 of Guang Xu), he set up a mint in Wuhan (Wuchang) which also minted silver dollars. In 1896 (year 22 of Guang Xu) Bei Yang (Pei Yang, another name for Zhili province) produced some trial pieces, and commenced full production the following year. These were minted by the Bei Yang Machine Bureau in Tianjin (Tientsin) and were marked "Pei Yang Arsenal". In the 33rd year of Guang Xu (1907) the bureau changed its name to the Bei Yang Mint, with a further change to the General Mint in 1910 (2nd year of the emperor Xuan Tong). Coins with the inscription in English "Tai-Ching Ti-Kuo Silver Coin" were produced at this mint. Source:http://www.kenelks.co.uk/chinese/chinesedragon.htm
Pillar of the Community
United States
1984 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  09:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add halfabustisbetter to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Trade dollar looks OK, but the others not so much.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3284 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  3:08 pm  Show Profile Check swamperbob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
baguiobookstore The 1903 French Indo Chinese Piastre is a counterfeit. You need only look at one legend for absolute proof - the name of the country is INDO-CHINE FRANCAISE - but the C in FRANCAISE is missing the little squiggle that sticks out of the bottom of the letter. Also notice that some letter fonts are different sizes - the F and the R in FRANCAISE for example. There are other clues but those two alone seal the deal.

The Chinese Dollar 34th Year is also a modern forgery. The fonts used for the lettering is incorrect. The letters are too crude and are of different sizes. These copies are seen in mainland China and Hong Kong - they have been on the US secondary market for at least 25 years.

The US Trade dollar is a bit more difficult. The dies are done very well and this one may be a silver strike (or a thickened planchet). But I believe it is a fake because I own a forgery made from a nearly identical reverse die with raised line segments to the left of the eagle. I have pointed them out here.



Image Insert:



Please check the Specific Gravity of the coin it should be about 10.15 for an original. The forgeries are often 8.9.
Valued Member
Philippines
120 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  9:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add baguiobookstore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hi!

thanks for the infos..

swamperbob, how to check the gravity of the coin?

thanks!
Pillar of the Community
United States
3284 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2008  10:48 pm  Show Profile Check swamperbob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add swamperbob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Specific Gravity is rather easy, but it requires a good balance scale, a glass case so no air currents disturb your readings and patience. You will need a balance scale that can weigh accurately to at least 1/100 gram but a scale that weighs accurately to 1/1000 th of a gram is preferable for alloy evaluations.

Caution - DO NOT DO THIS TO HIGH GRADE COINS. This form of testing is only for suspicious coins or coins that have poor surfaces (not original). Most coins I test have holes , big scratches and test cuts anyway. I do not want to impare original silver surfaces.

1. Weigh the coin in air - make sure there are no deposits on the coin
I wash coins in pure acetone to disolve plastics and in warm water
with a simple detergent to remove oils. Remember NO SCRUBBING -
just dip and swish at most. I will oil a coin after completion.

2. Make a small harness out of fine wire that will hold the coin.

3. Weigh the coin again suspended with the wire.

4. Immerse the coin in room temperature water and weigh the coin again.
A. Make sure the water is pure (demineralized if possible or at least boiled.)
B. Add a few drops of a liquid detergent to break the surface tension.
C. Make sure no air bubbles are trapped or clinging to the coin or harness.
5. After taking the weight in water you remove the coin from the wire.
6. Weigh just the wire in air (dry).
7. Weigh the wire alone suspended in the water.
You need to do this to fine tune the SG.

This gives you a series of weights:

Coin in air with no wire suspender - call this W
Coin in air with wire suspender. Wa
Coin in water with wire suspender. Ww
Suspender in air. Sa
Suspender in water. Sw

Here is the math you do:

W
_________________ = Specific Gravity

(Wa-Sa) - (Ww-Sw)

For a real example here are the numbers from an actual 8R test I ran.

W = 26.922 g
Wa = 26.965 g
Ws = 24.306 g
Sa = 0.043 g
Sw = 0.023 g

W 26.922
_________________ = _______________________________ = 10.2

(Wa-Sa) - (Ww-Sw) (26.965 - 0.043) - (24.306 - 0.023)

The math works out to 10.20159 but the result is best expressed to 1/10 - this coin was a real silver 8R within a normal range.

If you do the same math and leave out the weight of the wire harness you get 10.4 (10.3586) which is too high so accuracy is super critical when you are looking for small changes.

I usually repeat all the steps at least 3 times and average the results because a change of 1/100th gram will modify the results.

This process will take about 15 to 20 minutes per coin at first, but with practice, I have gotten production to about 6 coins per hour.

You can do less precise tests of course and do one coin per minute by taking only one weight and using a 1/100th gram accuracy. This will distinguish between a copper fake and a silver coin, but the accuracy level to 1/1000 is needed to distinguish between different silver alloys.

This is where paying attention in Chem Lab (and liking science in general) comes in handy.
Valued Member
Philippines
120 Posts
 Posted 02/18/2008  07:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add baguiobookstore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
that's a lot of effort you've done swamperbob.. THANK YOU SO MUCH..


This is where paying attention in Chem Lab (and liking science in general) comes in handy.

was it? he he he.. I guess so,

again THANK YOU VERY MUCH..

keep up bob, I still have lot to learn from you....


in other words I still has lots of questions to ask


nice day!
Valued Member
Philippines
120 Posts
 Posted 02/22/2008  09:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add baguiobookstore to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
hi swamperbob!

the 1877-s Trade dollar is authentic!

wew!

gee... thanks!

nice day!
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