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Toning: A thing of beauty?

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7090 Posts
 Posted 01/21/2010  5:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's some toning:






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 Posted 01/21/2010  5:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add johnny54321 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Moe, in all honesty, the bust half looks AT to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Still a nice coin. :-)
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 Posted 01/21/2010  7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Brewzz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
zeewool,that looks like axle grease on that standing lib,to me....LOL
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 Posted 01/21/2010  7:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Moe145 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Johnny54321 wrote:


Quote:
Moe, in all honesty, the bust half looks AT to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Still a nice coin. :-)


I also think so. It's extremely difficult to get toning like this on both sides naturally.

I still think it's cool but I do think it's been artificially toned.

Good eye for detail, Mr. Johnny!

I still think I'll keep it though!
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 Posted 01/21/2010  7:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You may very well be right Brewzz. If it is, then it's 'used' axle grease. It is almost black.
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 Posted 01/23/2010  07:37 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fyimo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I love toned coins and I think most are beautiful. There are some that are not pretty and a lot of Franklin halves have a dark brown toning that I don't find very attractive.

Here's a few of my favorites




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 Posted 01/23/2010  08:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I posted a picture of an ugly walking liberty half in AU-55 with only splotchy toning.

I still wonder if there is a correlation between toning and condition. I rather think so.

Starting with two untoned coins of the same type, will a worn coin begin to tone as rapidly as a mint state coin (all other factors being equal)?

If one of those beautifully toned coins (that others have posted shots of) were to be cracked out of it's slab and rubbed on as if it were in circulation, what would be the result? Cannot toning be removed by use (wear)? If so, would the toning return to it's present state eventually, or would that depend on the about of rubbing that is applied now?
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 Posted 01/23/2010  09:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Starting with two untoned coins of the same type, will a worn coin begin to tone as rapidly as a mint state coin (all other factors being equal)?

In theory, yes; the rate of silver tarnish is governed largely by the amount of sulfur in the air; if they're in the same environment, they should tone the same.

In practice, there would be discrepancies - a "worn" coin should already be partially toned; A "mint state" coin might have oil or other substances on the surface that could alter the toning pattern. It would only be a "fair test" if both the worn and unc coins were washed and dipped prior to beginning the test.

It's also been my observation (admittedly with my mother's silver spoon collection, not my coins) that a silver object that's been "dipped" will retone faster and uglier than a "pure" one that has never been dipped or cleaned. I suspect the dipping leaves "holes" in the surface that attract sulfur more readily.

Quote:
If one of those beautifully toned coins (that others have posted shots of) were to be cracked out of it's slab and rubbed on as if it were in circulation, what would be the result? Cannot toning be removed by use (wear)?

Yes, toning will "rub off" - it's a very thin layer, and is easily disturbed; silver coins certainly didn't come in technicolour when they were in everyday use. Even thick grey-black tarnish can come off in circulation; ask anyone who was around when silver coins were in everyday use - circulated coins would almost always be dull grey in colour, from constantly having their tarnish rubbed away. Bank tellers and shopkeepers who handled lots of silver coinage would come away with blackened hands at the end of the day; the black stuff would be silver sulfide, the stuff tarnish is made of.

Quote:
If so, would the toning return to it's present state eventually, or would that depend on the about of rubbing that is applied now?

Toning colour is purely a side-effect of the thickness of the silver sulfide layer; it's a thin film effect, just like a soap bubble or oil floating on water. The thinnest layers are yellow; then red, green, blue, and finally black. You can in theory get any colour you please on a coin, simply by exposing it to the wrong environment for just the right amount of time.

It should also be pointed out that toning colour is not long-term stable; if not kept in an absolutely airtight container or holder, the colour progression I outlined above will happen. Your silver coins that are beautiful and blue today are going to be black in a decade's time, if you leave them exposed to open air. Even a slab will slow down the progression greatly, but will not stop it completely. I suspect that the Morgan posted by fyimo in the old PCGS slab may not have looked like that when it was originally slabbed; those old slab types aren't nearly as airtight as the modern versions.
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 Posted 01/23/2010  09:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks very much for all of that, Sap.

So if a person has a beautifully toned coin, it only makes sense to me then, that it would be advisable to get it slabbed to preclude mishap to the toning.
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 Posted 01/23/2010  10:57 am  Show Profile Check nohope587's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add nohope587 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Toning whilst nice can also mask a coins details



Sometimes one pops up that is unexpected. I have hundreds of CU sixpences an very few exhibit any toning.


Richard Barnes www.mycoins.us
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 Posted 01/23/2010  11:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My thoughts and long held belief exactly nohope !
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 Posted 01/23/2010  11:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the way Richard, that 500 Lira that you posted is a whole bunch uglier than the Walker that 'I' posted at the beginning of this thread (and I only posted the Walker because it was the ugliest toning I had ever seen).
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 Posted 07/22/2010  6:53 pm  Show Profile Check SA4H's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SA4H to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you Sap for your great answers.... very informative.
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 Posted 07/22/2010  8:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
the walker was on the ugly side, but with the double or tripple reverse I think toning isn't the important aspect....!
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 Posted 07/22/2010  8:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add zeewool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It probably doesn't matter now anyway Gene. I have been giving coins out at Halloween, Christmas, birthdays, etc, and I think that was probably one of them. It was in an ANACS EF-40 or 45 slab as I recall. I hated that coin.
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