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1882 Alfonso XII 4 peso gold-forgotten Rare coin?

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Valued Member
Philippines
383 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2010  02:07 am Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I feel that one of the most forgotten Philippine Rare Gold coin is this 1882 Alfonso XII 4 peso gold coin. During the late sixties, the value of this coin already fetched 2,000 US dollars based on the book of Aldo Basso. The value of the 1906-s USPI and the 1828 Manila Counterstamp barely reached 250 dollars at that time using the same source (book). You will notice that the value of the last 2 silver coins I have mentioned already reached almost ten folds (10x) but this Alfonso 4 peso gold's present value being auctioned now at Heritage only fetch doubled (2x) its stated cost last 1968. Not to mention this gold coin is categorized as "rare" compared to the "scarce" category of 1906-s USPI & 1828 Manila CS. Anyone who might add or shed light to this?

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United States
13743 Posts
 Posted 04/23/2010  06:29 am  Show Profile Check echizento's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Beautiful coin.
Valued Member
Philippines
383 Posts
 Posted 04/24/2010  02:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Beautiful coin

Yes you are right echizento, it's a beauty but I am beginning to wonder how many right now are there 1882 alfonso 4p still in existence from its 27 thousand plus mintage? Is it practical for me to keep this coin considering the appreciation in terms of its value is not that nice?
New Member
Philippines
6 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2010  12:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add horge to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, Pan.
Your mintage is incorrect.

Only 17,702 pieces were struck, not 27,702
Basso (1969, 1975) suffers from several typographic and factual errors with respect to mintage, and this is one of them. Basso's uncredited source in this case is Guia Oficial de Filipinas para 1886 (p. 436) the Spanish colonial government's annual guidebook, which provides the correct mintage, and (naturally) checks out with the mint's own surviving Resumenes del numero y clase de monedas de oro y plata por cada mes individually signed by Mint Director Juan Ramirez de Arellano and Mint Accountant Luis Sages, indicating the coins were minted from January to April of 1882.

hth.
horge
Valued Member
Philippines
383 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2010  03:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Only 17,702 pieces were struck, not 27,702

Hello Horge,
Wow, didn't know it was only 17,702.
Your resources are super impressive.
How I wish to also have an access to the guidebook you were referring to...
How true was it that an 1880 year for these alfonsinos are not in existence?
oh...By the way to the community
New Member
Philippines
6 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2010  05:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add horge to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Manila minted 3,192 pieces of 4-peso coins in 1880, but using
"1868"-dated isabelina dies. The Madrid mint that same year
struck fewer than 24 pieces of "1880"-dated alfonsino 4-peso
coins, as demonstration pieces for the King and his concerned
agencies: no other such coins ever existed.

At least 1 specimen was sent to the Real Academia de Historia's
numismatic cabinet in Madrid, and 1 was shipped to Manila as a
reference specimen, in October 1880.

I do have more to say on this matter, but not now, nor here.
Please do not ask.


h.
New Member
Philippines
6 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2010  05:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add horge to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Oh, one last thing.

Sell your specimen ONLY if you desperately need the revenue.
You can always find a way to make some cash, but it is very
difficult to obtain a genuine, high-grade 1882 4P Manila.
To avoid certain legal issues (restrictions in Presidential
Decree No,374,1974 "The Cultural Property Preservation and
Protection Act") you can really only sell it to a fellow
Filipino residing within the Philippines.

hth,
horge
Valued Member
Philippines
383 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2010  7:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
You can always find a way to make some cash, but it is very
difficult to obtain a genuine, high-grade 1882 4P Manila.
To avoid certain legal issues (restrictions in Presidential
Decree No,374,1974 "The Cultural Property Preservation and
Protection Act") you can really only sell it to a fellow
Filipino residing within the Philippines.

I hope we meet on auctions here because I really have so much questions to ask and interested to learn.
Frankly speaking I almost tried to post this coin at eBay recently because I felt the cost of it when I acquired this more than a decade ago barely appreciated compared to some silver rarities. My plan then was take the proceeds and expand more on my early dated type F.7.o and Y.II counterstamped collection.
By the threads you just posted here made me decide to forget disposing this alfonsino...
Pillar of the Community
Philippines
1154 Posts
 Posted 05/12/2010  9:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Nic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Pandesalapi and to horge

Talking about auctions...there's a coming auction by Bayanihan Club this May 30th at the usual site and based on the listing, there's some 5 pieces UNCs and EFs of the gold alfonso 4P's being auctioned off. Are you going? if so.. see you there!
Valued Member
Philippines
383 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2010  01:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
there's some 5 pieces UNCs and EFs of the gold alfonso 4P's being auctioned off

Hello Nic, yes see you on the 30th
One thing though, are they Alfonso 4P's or the common Isabel 4P's the Bayanihan club usually auctions?
If they are alfonso 4 pesos, first time Bayanihan will auction, then I might as well be ready of resources before the 30th, excited to again get at least get 1 out of 5pcs
Pillar of the Community
Philippines
1154 Posts
 Posted 05/13/2010  9:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Nic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Turns out most are gold 1P & 4P Isabelas, there are three 1P Alfonsos at $300 ave Tipo, but see item 174 in listing, Tipo starts at a surprise $2,100


Quote:

174.Spa/ Phil. Gold 4P Alfonso XII 1882 with almost imperceptible dent at bottom left of rim at reverse but AU Rare. PHOTO..US$ 2,100


auction brochures available at World Treasures MegamallB

Nice coin youve got there
Valued Member
Philippines
383 Posts
 Posted 05/14/2010  12:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
..lTipo starts at a surprise $2,100


Well that is definitely an alfonsino 4P if it is starting at that cost you mentioned. I hope the dent at the bottom left of the rim is not that bad. A clear plus / ultra on pillars and King Alfonso's moustache are important factors in these Alfonsinos, I wish they have sharp details

Quote:
auction brochures available at World Treasures MegamallB

Thank you Nic for the great info and the nice comment. See you soon in the auction
Pillar of the Community
Philippines
1154 Posts
 Posted 05/16/2010  07:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Nic to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
copy, good luck!
Pillar of the Community
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 06/04/2010  6:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's my Alfonso. No comparison to yours, still I like old coins.

Valued Member
Philippines
383 Posts
 Posted 06/05/2010  6:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Pandesalapi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Svslav - We share the same interest on old alfonsos. Your alfonso is a nice one
Nic - I was very happy with the recent Auction you have informed me, though nobody bidded on the Alfonso (maybe because of the absence of its mint luster), But I won the Bronze MS-62 RB Wilson Dollar at a very, very low cost I didn't expected - Way, way below the normal price at Heritage Auction Archives. With your thread and advise, I was able to get a copy of brochure at Megamall thus made an early study before the auction. Again lots of Thanks Nic
Valued Member
Philippines
58 Posts
 Posted 06/07/2010  02:32 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add fireandice556 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just saying Hi. An amateur PH enthusiast and with this forum. (H) is an old acquaintance with some other forums. :)

I still have do not have AUs in my collection, maybe in the future. Hope to learn much from this forum.
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