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Need help IDing odd 4th century Roman from Siscia mint

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Archraz
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 Posted 02/23/2012  11:05 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I am having some major trouble with this one since the lettering seems very jumbled on the obverse. I am just not quite sure what to think of it other than the fact that it may be double struck. Any thoughts and/or guesses based upon the bust type? Thanks!





Formerly jwharper
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 Posted 02/23/2012  11:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, lets start with what we do know. The reverse is a Gloria Exercitvs from Siscia, single standard with two soldiers either side of a standard.

On the obverse there appears to be NOBC at 2 oclock on your image. If you will confirm this, we can look to see which ruler(s) this might match and possibly narrow it down some.
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 Posted 02/23/2012  11:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well here is what I can see on my coin: "CHVHMOTHOSNOS?" This is what I can make out. But it is pretty clear that there are some overlapping strikes here, so the text is jumbled.
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 Posted 02/24/2012  12:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If that's what you really see, then it might be "CONSTANTIVS NOB".
"A poor Roman plays the Goth, a rich Goth the Roman." - Theodoric, King of the Ostrogoths

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 224, Byzantine: 21, Post-Roman Germanic: 17

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 Posted 02/24/2012  12:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ValiantKnight- Thanks for the input! I figured that it was someone of Constantine's family. Is there any way to tell based upon the bust type if it is Constantius or if it is "ConstantiNus?"
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 Posted 02/24/2012  12:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, I have checked wildwinds. And it seems that there were no coins struck under Constantius I that had this reverse with the two solders & standards. So it looks like this may just be a Constantine I. Do you guys agree?
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 Posted 02/24/2012  01:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ValiantKnight to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I checked Helveticas and there was one of Constantius II I think.
"A poor Roman plays the Goth, a rich Goth the Roman." - Theodoric, King of the Ostrogoths

Attributed coins in my collection so far - Roman: 224, Byzantine: 21, Post-Roman Germanic: 17

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 Posted 02/24/2012  09:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ancientcoinguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe that this is a coin of Constantine II. I have one just like it.



Obv: CONSTANTINVS IVN NOB C, laureate, curiassed bust right

Rev: GLOR-IA EXERC-ITVS, two soldiers holding spears and shields with one standard between them. O on standard.
Mintmark εSIS

RIC 253 (Volume VII)
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Edited by ancientcoinguy
02/24/2012 09:45 am
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 Posted 02/24/2012  3:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ancientcoinguy- hmm, quite possibly. But couldn't it also be Constantius II? Such as RIC VII 221?
http://wildwinds.com/coins/ric/cons..._vII_221.jpg
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 Posted 02/24/2012  4:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ancientcoinguy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It could be. It all depends on what exactly is written on the obverse. All this one will take is the difference of one letter to throw us off the correct path. If this does not clean up any better we may not be able to definitively say what it is. The reason I thought it may be the one I posted from my collection is that the bust shares the same features in the laurel and cuirass and the reverse shares the same features in the single standard with an O and an identical mint mark. But once again, it all comes down to that pesky obverse inscription.
Check out my collection online at http://www.romanvmimperivm.com!
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 Posted 02/24/2012  5:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dougsmit to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Short answer: This may be Delmatius.

While any guess can be disproven by reading a letter or two, the NOB rules out Constantine I. I believe I see an S before that which would suggest not Constantine II since he tended to have IVN in that position. If there is a V before the S, the coin seem to be Constantius II with a chance of Delmatius. This is the period of this mint when Constans used the genitive FL CONSTANTIS BEAC so the NOB rules him out even if you don't read the VS. RIC does list a NOB for Constans but only from shop delta and I don't read this as delta. Can you tell Constantius from Delmatius in this grade? I can't. Oddly, RIC indicates that Delmatius is more common than Constantius II in this issue.

For Archraz: RIC 221 has two standards but this coin only one. Seek out Siscia RIC 254 which shows Constantius using shops 2,3,4 and 5. There are many coins not yet in Wildwinds. This one will not be good enough to represent a type since it will never be certainly identified. RIC256, Delmatius, may be worth considering since it is listed for shops 2 and 5 (B,E) either of which could be what is under that mess. I think it is B which is R5 for Constantius and R1 for Delmatius.
Edited by dougsmit
02/24/2012 5:15 pm
Formerly jwharper
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 Posted 02/24/2012  5:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you look closely at Helvetica's, there are only four rulers with an obverse legend that ends in NOB C which were minted at Siscia:

Constantine II (CONSTANTINVS IVN NOB C)
Constantius II (FL IVL CONSTANTIVS NOB C)
Dalmatius (FL DELMATIVS NOB C)
Constans (FL CONSTANTIS NOB C)

If we can rely on what Archraz can see as "CHVHMOTHOSNOS?", then the only possible match would seem to be Constantine II. If you can make out the letter in front of the mintmark perhaps we can narrow it down a little more. To me it looks like a "B" and it also looks like there may be something after the SIS. According to Helvetica's it may be a star. Can you make it out in hand?

All in all, I'm not convinced the obverse legend does not begin with "FL" which then opens it up to several other posibilities.



Formerly jwharper
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 Posted 02/24/2012  5:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Short answer: This may be Delmatius.


This was my first inclination when this thread was first posted.
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 Posted 02/24/2012  7:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ancientcoinguy, dougsmit, & jwharper- Thanks for the input! I appreciate it.

jwharper- The mm certainly is BSIS but there is something after the last S as well. However, there appears to be a scratch or die crack that runs through whatever the last symbol is. But if I had to take a wild guess, I would say that what is partially visible does not look like the top of a letter. So a star it certainly may be.
Formerly jwharper
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 Posted 02/24/2012  7:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Bing to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If it is Constantine II and BSIS Star that would make it RIC VII Siscia 262 which is rated as R4. However, I still think this may be one of the other rulers such as Damatius. As an example, if it is Dalmatius with BSIS Star it would be RIC VII Siscia 266 or it could be Constants with Delta SIS Star it could be RIC VII Siscia 265. Bottom line here is it depends on the first few letters of the obverse legend. If your initial assessment is correct, then it would have to be the Constantine II above and mystery solved!
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 Posted 02/24/2012  8:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Archraz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
jwharper- I am quite certain that it is BSIS for the mint mark. Hoenstly, the more that I look at this coin (and keep in mind that it looks a lot better in hand) the more I am certain that the first few letters are totally unreadable and that there are at least 2 (if not 3) different legends overlapping. So I am sort of stuck. However, I do have a bit of a slight leaning to Dalmatius.
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