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The Black Cabinet on Numismetrica - Counterfeit Attribution

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SteveCaruso
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United States
1364 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  01:30 am Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Since I cannot deny the librarian in me for too long, I've decided to electronically document my US black cabinet one piece at a time. Where I hope to eventually integrate the holdings into Numismetrica proper so if a user has a potential counterfeit in their collection it will alert them, I've set up a separate section of the website to aggregate what I've done do so far here:

http://fakes.numismetrica.com

So here's the fun part:

I'm thinking about offering an "attribution service" for fakes. :-)

Yes, this is a little tongue-in-cheek, but not as much as you'd think (I mean, "First Strike™" is taken seriously enough, isn't it? ;-) ).

Education about counterfeits is essential for this hobby to continue to thrive. Lately, counterfeiting efforts are increasing and exceedingly convincing fakes are being found more readily on the market. The local "cash for gold" places around here are smitten with them, and even some of the more serious and experiences dealers have been hit with one or two of the "superfakes" coming from China.

So, if we pool together what fakes we do have and profile them, perhaps we can help others avoid falling victim in the first place.

Thoughts? Comments?

-Steve (GSNA R-2306)
The Black Cabinet
A Database of Counterfeit Coins. Attribution Services.
Numismetrica
Coin Collection Management Software for your Desktop and Mobile Devices.
Edited by SteveCaruso
03/21/2012 01:31 am
Valued Member
United States
114 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  07:03 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wvparadox to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is a needed service, Thanks Steve
Every time I buy a raw coin for over $100 I wonder "is this real?"
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Australia
8416 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  07:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Everyone who can manage to buy fake coins very cheaply should do so, provided they are sold as fakes.

With a reasonable collection of them, you have a basis for self education to protect yourself, and help to identify them more easily.

With high value coins it is best to examine in hand before deciding to buy, and good familiarity with fakes is an essential part of the decision making process.
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United States
1364 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  09:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@wvparadox - Thanks, I hope it will come of use. :-)

@sel_69l - Exactly. Education is key when it comes to counterfeiting. Even with low-value coins nowadays as most of the fakes coming from China today are for common dates in an attempt to take advantage of the current price of silver. Because of this, I'd encourage any collector to have a black cabinet of their own.
-Steve (GSNA R-2306)
The Black Cabinet
A Database of Counterfeit Coins. Attribution Services.
Numismetrica
Coin Collection Management Software for your Desktop and Mobile Devices.
Valued Member
United States
303 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  10:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hermanwilliams to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What a great idea.

Counterfeit 1924 Peace dollar? Incredible.
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20361 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  11:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That is an interesting site that you have created.

I do not have any fakes to share, but I am sure there are plenty around here.
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United States
8246 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  12:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I'm thinking about offering an "attribution service" for fakes. :-)

Yes, this is a little tongue-in-cheek, but not as much as you'd think (I mean, "First Strike™" is taken seriously enough, isn't it? ;-) ).

Of course it should be taken seriously. Why not? There is an entire book which has been through two editions just on the die varieties of contemporary counterfeit bust halves. Why not an attribution service for all fakes.
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United States
1364 Posts
 Posted 03/21/2012  10:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Of course it should be taken seriously. Why not? There is an entire book which has been through two editions just on the die varieties of contemporary counterfeit bust halves. Why not an attribution service for all fakes.


I just found the book in question. There are kindred souls out there! :-)
-Steve (GSNA R-2306)
The Black Cabinet
A Database of Counterfeit Coins. Attribution Services.
Numismetrica
Coin Collection Management Software for your Desktop and Mobile Devices.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8246 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2012  11:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Conder101 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There are many of us who like contemporary counterfeits. (In the Conder tokens there are a lot of contemporary counterfeits and they are cataloged in the same book along with the real ones, and many of us collect them as well. Several of the Connecticut and Vermont state copper varieties are also contemporary counterfeits.) It is the modern fakes we don't care so much about, but a good attribution or identification source for them would not be frowned upon.
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155 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2012  6:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add yarm to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
If you're collecting images for your site, here's a 1935 Santa Fe Trail counterfeit per PCGS.

Valued Member
United States
318 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2012  7:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cajunlady0 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Excellent database you have started, Steve. Can't wait until you build it up more. Sure hope I don't see any of my coins on there because they are supposed to be real. :)

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 Posted 03/22/2012  8:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ArrowsAndRays to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I found CCF while Googling "7070" - I stayed because there is sooooooooooooo much to learn!
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Upgrading my 7070 never ends!
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542 Posts
 Posted 03/22/2012  8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patrick to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very helpful. Thanks for doing all this work!
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United States
1364 Posts
 Posted 03/24/2012  12:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@yarm - I'd love to add that to the listings. Could you fill out the following information for me under "Digital Attribution" on the Attribution page?

http://fakes.numismetrica.com/count...attribution/
-Steve (GSNA R-2306)
The Black Cabinet
A Database of Counterfeit Coins. Attribution Services.
Numismetrica
Coin Collection Management Software for your Desktop and Mobile Devices.
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 Posted 03/24/2012  4:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Nice resource!
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 Posted 03/24/2012  4:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Great idea. Only problem I see is just how many can find it in the future. Always my way of wondering what happens to so many good ideas that just fade away. A site like that would be a great Sticky or separate forum right here, somewhere. That way any questions about fakes could be sent there.
Unfortunately there are to many separate sites about coins and people tend to miss many of them and eventually they just fade away. An example of this is http://www.coppercoins.com Used to be a great place for Lincoln Cent information but since so seldom used, now being shut down.
just carl
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