Need help to ID coins

Top is 8 reals, botttom is 4 reals most likely issued under Phillip IV, I can't see any mint mark, but could be issued in Spanish America or Spain.

aiglet7 and Enlil thank you for help. I also receive answer about this coins from another forum. I will post it here, maybe it will be helpful for someone in future:

''8 reales the first one
4 reales the second one

mintmark and mintmaster are off the flan

but as the shield does not have the portugal coat of arms I d attribute them to Felipe II you can also see part of the King`s name PHILIPPVS around the edge

these were the coins used by the pirates and by the spaniards during the golden age of the new world
''
Regards