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BuffalosRock
Valued Member
United States
309 Posts
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Had a seller send me an email after I won his auction asking if I'd like to pay more for insurance and/or signature confirmation. That strikes me as "off". It is as though they would not be willing to do anything if the coin got lost in the mail ( I'd imagine they'd try to claim that I waived the suggested insurance and sig so it is my responsibility ). Seems inappropriate to list a s&h cost and then want the buyer to cover "more".
I think that the "buyer protection" puts the onus on the seller if the package is lost in the mail, so if they are worried, then they should cover any insurance or verification to protect them! And if they want that as part of the s&h fees, then list it up-front ( so those extra fees can be used to evaluate the viability of the coin's worth to the buyer ).
Just is BAD FORM and a bad trend IMO!
But then so is charging $5 s&h and sending the coin in a regular envelope with 64c in stamps, like another seller did. Goosing the profits with exhorbitant fees and then cheaping out is also bad form IMO. I am okay with reg envelope if the shipping is free and the coin is a cheapie, but $5 and not even delivery confirmation is ridiculous. I did ding them on the shipping fees "star rating" for it.
I have had two inexpensive coins get lost in the mail in the last year - at least I think so as I have to trust that the seller really sent them. One gave me a full refund and 10% off the next purchase - which I eventually did make use of. The other, a high volume dealer with a huge inventory that I've bought $500 coins from, said I could pick any coin with that date at or one level higher graded ( on eBay or their website ) and they'd send it at no added charge - I liked one on their website just as much as the one I originally ordered so it worked out fine. Both extremely fair and decent resolutions, IMO. Both send cheap coins regular mail so I guess they deal with the small % of losses that come with that gamble/risk.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2541 Posts |
It's the seller's responsibility to get the coin to you in the same condition as advertised in their listing. Loss or damage in transit is their issue. If you don't receive the coin or it is damaged, file a claim with eBay buyer protection.
This seller's tactic is very "Cheesy". Delivery confirmation and insurance protect the seller, not the buyer now that eBay buyer protection is in-place.
If you feel comfortable doing so, you might want to list the seller above in the "Not Recommended" seller list, so others can be warned.
So many coins, so little time ...
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Valued Member
United States
309 Posts |
Agreed SeatedNut. I forgot to mention that he also offered that I could pay by check instead of Neteller. Which I imagine would make getting a refund more complicated - not as simple as reversing the Neteller charge. I've sent dealers checks on deals not involving eBay, that usually involved getting the coin for less due to not having the cc fees involved, but never on eBay. He didn't even offer a discount with that option.
I'll post his handle and a warning once I get the coin and am satisfied with it.
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Valued Member
Canada
182 Posts |
I started selling on eBay after years of just buying, & I was stung by a dishonest buyer. He bought a lot of coins over a short period of time(mostly 90% silver at or slightly above melt),everything went fine with the first shipment, he got the coins & gave positive ratings. Every one of the next 3 shipments he claimed he never received, & accused me of stealing his money. Coins were sent without insurance or confirmation, because he wanted shipping costs at a minimum & individually the coins weren't very valuable. Here's the rub, over this same time period I shipped coins the same way, through the same post office, to more than two dozen buyers all over the world, as far away as Russia. Guess what? Not ONE other coin went "missing"! Yet three shipments in a row to this particular buyer went missing? The odds of that are astronomical... Both eBay & Paypal (yes I know they're in bed together) told me basically that I was responsible, tough... Lessons learned: There are sharks lurking all over eBay, & not just dishonest sellers; Never ship something ever again that you can't track; eBay gives precious little protection to the seller, on top of gouging rude amounts of commission & listing fees, and for these reasons is best given a wide berth.
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Valued Member
United States
309 Posts |
I hear ya Islander2010, dishonest buyers or sellers are a blight on the hobby for ALL! You posted: Quote:
Coins were sent without insurance or confirmation, because he wanted shipping costs at a minimum & individually the coins weren't very valuable. How were "his wants" in play tho? You needed to cover "your coins" (via insurance or del conf) in order to keep from having the "expletive-deleted" steal from you - which is what he did. You say he wanted shipping costs at a minimum but that is part of your listing - and as we have said it is part of your responsibility not the buyer's. His wants are irrelavent to what you listed the coins for, so claiming he influenced the costs seems out-of-place really. It truly stinks that so many are out to steal and rob and jip and rip off others in this hobby. Gets more disgusting by the day. I don't like the trend that some use it to "justify" doing it to others - being ripped-off themselves. Vicious cycle that hurts honest folks trying to enjoy a hobby. Sorry you got taken, eBay and Neteller etc. should recognize the odds of that guy getting 3 straight packages lost is enormous and not let him get away with it. It's olks like that you hope kharma falls on their head sooner rather than later. Edited by BuffalosRock
06/20/2012 11:05 am
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6222 Posts |
Everyone is right, it is their responsibility unless you have an agreement beforehand. I had an item I sold to a guy in australia. I warned him of what shipping would cost with tracking beforehand and that I refuse to ship without it. He said he would take responsibility if it got lost. Unfortunately it did get lost, honestly I think someone read the customs form and saw what it was and took it since it had no tracking but he was true to his word. I tried to track it down at the post office but once they said it had left the country there was nothing I could do.
My shipping charges when I see are usually a little high, about 5 dollars, but I only ship with flat fate priority mail and tracking to avoid issues with lost packages ect. I do like now that if you print shipping online tracking is free as I used to eat the cost every time.
I do find the insurance question very odd since if it gets lost insurance only protects him not you. He was basically asking you to pay for his security in shipping. I would avoid buying from him in the future
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Forum Dad
United States
5172 Posts |
Quote:
Everyone is right, it is their responsibility unless you have an agreement beforehand. That is not true in the US. No agreement made will supersede the FTC federal mail order law. There are a ton of sellers that think just because they put stipulations in their listings they are binding which simply isn't true.
Buying? Let's keep it in the family!Member CCF Auction / Pocket it Now Sales | Member eBay SalesTry our new eBay Coin Search, more powerful than eBay's!
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Pillar Of The Community
7697 Posts |
Quote:
I am okay with reg envelope if the shipping is free and the coin is a cheapie, but $5 and not even delivery confirmation is ridiculous. I have sold a lot of coins here on CCF, where I consider shipping the "service end" of the transaction, not where you pull out an extra few % margin.   If I'm paying $5 for shipping a single coin, I expect an appropriate level of service--not garnishing their bottom line.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
777 Posts |
Inflating shipping doesn't work anymore. eBay now charges their fees on the sell price and shipping combined, so there is no way to avoid fees by inflating shipping. I think a lot of sellers still do it because they are not aware of the change. I occasionally sell on eBay and charge just a buck or two over shipping to cover the fees. I don't want to get stuck in a situation where after fees and shipping, I'm actually losing money. It can easily happen.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6222 Posts |
Quote:
That is not true in the US. No agreement made will supersede the FTC federal mail order law. There are a ton of sellers that think just because they put stipulations in their listings they are binding which simply isn't true. I didn't stipulate anything in the listing. It was a written agreement between us initiated by him. Anyone can freely wave any of their rights at anytime. Even without tracking international shipments still get tracked till customs internally with the customs number so there was a record it left the country. But yes I don't like the sellers that just put redicilious disclaimers in their listings while they are probably running scams and saying they aren't responsible
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Forum Dad
United States
5172 Posts |
Quote:
It was a written agreement between us initiated by him. Anyone can freely wave any of their rights at anytime. What I said was "No agreement made will supersede the FTC federal mail order law." I threw the listing part in as an aside. The FTC mail order law is not a right, it is a Federal law. No written or oral agreement, or listing stipulation will supersede it. The buyer will win regardless if it is pushed.
Buying? Let's keep it in the family!Member CCF Auction / Pocket it Now Sales | Member eBay SalesTry our new eBay Coin Search, more powerful than eBay's!
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1850 Posts |
When I sell on eBay I almost never put delivery confirmation on coins less than $5, even though paypal gives free delivery confirmation you must use at least parcel rate shipping to use it. Since it only costs 65 cents to ship a coin via first class letter rate as opposed to $1.64 for a parcel and for low value coins an extra dollar tacked on to the price can be the determining factor whether my coin gets sold or a competitors does. Its cheaper to take the risk than it is to get seller protection by shipping via parcel rate.
Oldest Found-------
Cent: 1842 (from machine)
Three Cent: 1866 [Nickel] (from machine)
Nickel: 1883 (from roll)
Dime: 1911 (from roll)
Quarter: 1932 (from machine)
Half: 1917 (from roll)
Dollar: 1880 (from machine)
Foriegn: 1863 (from machine)
Edited by XavierOfGreen
06/20/2012 4:39 pm
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
777 Posts |
Quote:
even though paypal gives free delivery confirmation you must use at least parcel rate shipping to use it. On top of that, parcel post is a good way to make sure it doesn't get delivered, or at least not in a reasonable amount of time. My postmaster explained why. She said that the distribution center's performance is measured on first class, priority, and express only. When they fill the trucks, they load those first. They then fill the rest with whatever parcel post will fit. If there isn't room, it waits for the next truck.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6222 Posts |
Quote:
What I said was "No agreement made will supersede the FTC federal mail order law." I threw the listing part in as an aside.
The FTC mail order law is not a right, it is a Federal law. No written or oral agreement, or listing stipulation will supersede it. The buyer will win regardless if it is pushed. Thats just not true though. Its not a regulations law its a buyer protection law. Its illegal to slam someone into a glass wall but if you enter into a full contact hockey league you have waived your right to sue for assault when that happens. If a buyer walked into court saying this law says this and that and the seller presents an email saying judge I wanted to ship with tracking, the buyer insisted I didnt and that they would take full responsibility to anything that is lost and I have proof the package was in fact shipped the case is over.
Edited by basebal21
06/20/2012 9:42 pm
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Valued Member
United States
359 Posts |
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Forum Dad
United States
5172 Posts |
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Posted 06/20/2012 09:49 am
