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 Canadian Commemoratives and Non-Circulating Coinage (NCLT)

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NCLT Coins are not legal tender, including the $20 for $20

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Dooby Rak
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Canada
590 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  08:28 am Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Dooby Rak to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I just heard on the radio (680 news in Toronto) this morning that banks are refusing to accept the $20 for $20 as legal tender. I started to read this on other forums also. The Mint made a comment that the $20 for $20 is considered as NCLT and financial institutions and retailers are not obligated to treat it as currency.

So the coin is worth only what some one will pay for it or its melt value, around $9.00.

Pillar Of The Community
Canada
897 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  08:30 am  Show Profile Check RoyalSilver's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add RoyalSilver to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
well that is extremely disappointing....
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
590 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  09:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dooby Rak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From the Toronto Star:

http://www.thestar.com/business/art...the-hard-way


Quote:

Coin collector learns the difference between legal tender and spending money the hard way

Published on Thursday July 05, 2012

Morgan Campbell
Business Reporter

What's the difference between legal tender and spending money?

A big headache for a Scarborough man who learned the hard way that banks aren't obligated to honour collector's coins at face value, even if they come from the Royal Canadian Mint.

Two months ago 32-year-old Orest Fokine took advantage of a deal on a new silver coin the mint had stamped to commemorate Queen Elizabeth's Diamond Jubilee.

The coin retails for $25, but Fokine was able to buy more than 30 of them at their $20 face value.

On Tuesday he needed money quickly, and with no cash at hand he headed to a CIBC branch near Kingston Rd. and Midland Rd. with one of his silver coins, hoping to exchange it for cash or deposit it into his account.

But the teller there told him he could do neither, rejecting Fokine's silver coin.

When he appealed to the manager he was again told he couldn't exchange the coin for cash.
Valued Member
Canada
198 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  09:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add TIPIT to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
What about: http://www.mint.ca/store/product/pr...=prod1040001

Official RCM page which states that 20$ for 20$ ARE legal tender:
"This new Canadian silver commemorative coin is legal tender with a value of $20. It is available for the official price of only $20. You simply exchange $20 from your wallet for a $20 coin of pure 99.99% silver."

The fact is, if I remember well, this is not mandatory for any company or business to accept every form of legal tender... take the 100$ bill by example, a lot of places do not accept them... they are legal tender! I'm a bit surprised about the bank tough.

I guess we will aalways be able to "redeem" these 20$ for 20$ at Bank of Canada or at some official bureau... but what a waste of time and energy.

It would worth investigation. Just imagine all businesses and banks stop to accept 100$ bill as of today... 100$ bills would worth nothing? Kind of strange!
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1949 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  09:31 am  Show Profile Check chequer's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add chequer to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We've had this discussion here... if I have time later I'll search for the link... but the bottom line is that they are definitively not legal tender.
Valued Member
Canada
396 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  09:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tocoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think there's a concern for security from any bank or merchant's point of view. Who's to say that the coin is genuine. Must they weight them, verify such NCLT in a catalogue? It's complicated.
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
590 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  10:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dooby Rak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This goes beyond just NCLT coins. Try and take a 50 cent piece to the bank. I went to three banks in Toronto and they would not take it. They thought it was fake. The younger tellers are simply not knowledgeable on what is circulation currency. The default response in a situation that requires any use of judgment or the need to acquire knowledge is simply to reject the transaction. Then they cant get in trouble. I had to call a branch manager to exchange some old 50 cent pieces.
Valued Member
Canada
306 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  10:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add falcon to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think the only reason the RCM was able to sell all those UGLY coins is because of the fact that they miss led the general public in to believing they were legal tender.
Actually I think miss led is to soft..... they out right lied :-(
I'm sure most of the 250000 are in the hands of the dealers who were hoping to flip them
Valued Member
Canada
442 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  10:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vinnycoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the article: http://www.thestar.com/business/art...the-hard-way

here's the thread in kitco silver forum which has the guy and his experience, which eventually led to the article. I think its called " 20 for 20 not legal tender"
Valued Member
Canada
442 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  10:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add vinnycoin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ooops Dooby beat me by an hour :P
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
559 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  10:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jpaiva83 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think I remember that Mint rep saying that the Mint store in Ottawa will take back the $20 for $20 coins at face value if you purchase something at the store with it.

Valued Member
Canada
315 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  10:27 am  Show Profile Check unclekim's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add unclekim to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
As per article RBC and CIBC later agreed to take money (although 6 month hold is laughable)
Valued Member
Canada
423 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  11:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chubbycheeks to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By the end of the article it states "Reeves points out banks all have procedures by which customers can convert collectible coins to cash but acknowledges staff aren't always aware of them. In that case he suggests having the branch manager call the Mint so they can work through the conversion process" which leads me to believe the mint wasn't lying.

I could see why the teller wouldn't except it. If I was working and someone handed me a coin I've never seen or heard of before I wouldn't except it ether.

On another note, I can't believe he bought 30 of them. Or am I the only one buying 3 to collect?
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1189 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  12:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add BiBo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@Dooby Rak, Thanks for bring up an interesting topic. "Legal Tender" of RCM NCLT coins is also my concern when started collecting coin 2 months ago.

All banks are not accepted $20 for $20 coins. Is it true and by law? or just the unclear circumstance.

If this is true and the "face value" is meanless, then why RCM put so high value on some coin? ($300, $500, even $2500).
http://www.mint.ca/store/coin/fine-...-prod1390002
I hope RCM they read this topic on the forum. Then have the clear answer announcement on newspaper or at least on the official website.
Or some MC members please E-mail them about this concern and let the rest of us knows.
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1641 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  12:57 pm  Show Profile Check kuh_85's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add kuh_85 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I generally stick to just 1 to collect :-)
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
590 Posts
 Posted 07/05/2012  4:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dooby Rak to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
All banks are not accepted $20 for $20 coins. Is it true and by law? or just the unclear circumstance.


Its more a problem with under aware employes (unclear circumstance). Like I mentioned earlier take a 50 cent piece to the bank and you will have the same problem. Most banks wont take a 50 cent coin. I think you would have the same trouble with a 1905 large cent. Our money has changed so much in the past 40 years that its hard to tell what is acceptable and not. Add NCLT coins and foreign money and banks would have to offer a one month course on what kinds of money it can accept.

In the past nobody would ever take a NCLT coin to the bank. The value on the coin was a token amount to qualify it as currency. Like the article says I would gladly exchange your $100 gold coin for a $100 bill. The $20 for $20 changed the rules. This guy in the article was simple a trouble maker trying to prove a point. That the $20 for $20 coins were not real currency and not worth $20. If he had 30 coins he was obviously a dealer and could have sold them for $25 each on eBay in a one day auction.

I'm calling shenanigans on this guy.
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