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1919 Penny with raised mark on reverse

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 Posted 10/20/2009  10:33 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Thanks to Latman100, I received this 1919 1d with an interesting raised mark between the NN in PENNY. Interesting how similar the shape is to the corner of the N--or is that coincidental? Is this a known variety? Thanks for helping!

a couple shots under different lighting angles

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 Posted 10/21/2009  03:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I believe these are what Ian McConnelly, the Australian varieties "expert" that writes articles for Australasian Coin & Banknote magazine and compiled the Renniks "Predecimal varieties" book, calls "spurs". They're known on several dates of pennies, including 1919.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 10/21/2009  05:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Peter THOMAS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
G'day, interesting piece: I wonder what the technical explanation is ...
if they were Seppo, it'd be "struck through ..." of course.
Peter in Oz
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 Posted 10/21/2009  11:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting info--thanks! I have a Canada large cent with a known "spur", resembling part of the C in CENT.
Since these are raised, I suppose they were due to an impression on the die, perhaps an errant strike by the hub?
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Australia
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 Posted 10/22/2009  04:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jackool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I always thought spurs off the second "N" were caused by a die clash.
Don't quote me, just a thought, as the "spur" looks like the section under the beard above the collar on the obv side of the coin.


Jacko
Formerly nancyc
Australia
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 Posted 10/22/2009  05:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Nevol to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I also think it may be the result of a die clash.
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Nancy
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 Posted 10/22/2009  11:13 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I always thought spurs off the second "N" were caused by a die clash.
Don't quote me, just a thought, as the "spur" looks like the section under the beard above the collar on the obv side of the coin.
Now, that sounds very plausible--far more than my theory. Thanks!
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Australia
70 Posts
 Posted 10/22/2009  8:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jackool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
No problems DVCollector...
To be honest, I was hating the idea of changing my 2x2's if I had it wrong all these years hehe =o)
Die clashes are hard to spot on the KGV's and not all that common that I have noticed. I must say, your example blows all of mine out of the water and about 10 feet into the air... Such crispiness to the edges of the straight lines on the lettering. Really shows the spur nicely, I am quite jealous =o)

Jacko
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 Posted 10/22/2009  9:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Jacko! I was pretty surprised to find this one, because I don't find much on KGV pennies.
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Australia
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 Posted 10/26/2009  08:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add QldSandy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
From my observations, the "spurs" on these coins are the result of a dieclash, or multiple dieclashes in some cases. If they are the result of a strike-through then the area of the spur would be raised as they appear to be on most examples. Consider that if they are a dieclash then the area would also be raised as the low areas on the obverse side of a coin's die, when dieclashed, would appear as a high spot on the reverse.

If you examine the George V coins you will find that most of them suffer from some small degree of upset. This may be from just a few degrees to the known 60 degrees or better. I find that 5 or 10 degrees of upset seem to be reasonably common and many vary from there.

OK. Now consider that a "spur" should be just a single phenomen. A double "spur" could not fall into the strike-through category, nor would a triple "spur".
I have examples of the "spurs" on many of the Pennies from 1913 to 1927, and some of them are double "spurs" with a few "triple spurs" thrown in.

If the doubles and triples are strike-throughs then I'd like someone to explain to me just how they occurr. I also have examples where most of the face of the Monarch is visible and the "spur" is prominent. Food for thought.

1919 triple.


1921 spur.


1926 double spur with dieclash of the Monarch's face showing.
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Australia
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 Posted 10/26/2009  09:58 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jackool to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WOW! Great pics QLDSandy.
That triple in particular looks fantastic... Now I want to go and check my examples more closely for the double and triple clashes. Thank goodness for insomnia, it really does come in handy sometimes =o)

Jacko
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 Posted 10/26/2009  12:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
QldSandy, those are great pics...especially the triple clash! That really helps me visualize what's happening.
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Australia
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 Posted 02/27/2011  09:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nealeffendi to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Spurs are due to die clash and are very common (especially after they started minting the penny in Australia in 1919). If you want to see a progression from no spur to single, double and triple spurs the 1920 double dot coin has this (it was a very long lasting die with more coins from that particular die than any other 1920 Melbourne minted coins).
Interestingly it is the Melbourne mint that produced the vast majority of the Spur pennies; London and Sydney didn't seem to have the problem (they are very hard to find with spurs), Calcutta and Perth had some.

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 Posted 02/27/2011  11:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the info--and welcome to the forums!
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 Posted 03/07/2011  8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add appleangel07 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is a very nice die clash ( 42 I )for your viewing pleasure.







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 Posted 03/07/2011  8:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Scooby Due to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
That's a sweet clash!
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