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Wornslick
Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
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SuperDave
Moderator
USA
6291 Posts |
 Posted 03/12/2010 12:19 pm
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More than half of all Morgans ever minted were melted. Of the rest, many sat in Treasury vaults, in Mint State, until their release in the 1960's and later. The original mintage of just about any Morgan bears no relationship to its' current rarity or value.
Example: the 1883-CC, with a mintage of 1.2 million, survived in great numbers in Mint State and doesn't command much premium over many other CC issues. The 1884-S, with a mintage of 3.2 million, is almost impossible to find in Mint State and commands more than 10x the money for an 1883-CC of equivalent grade. If you can get one.
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Bryan1315
Moderator
USA
7784 Posts |
Posted 03/12/2010 12:49 pm
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I agree it is whether the ones that actually survived circulated much or was all hoarded. Allot of these coins were hoarded and remain in super high grades. 1881-S comes to mind here, You can find all the way up to MS-69PL of this date graded by PCGS and you can purchase all the way up to MS-66 for about the same price of a MS-63 or 64 of most other dates of the series because so many of these were never circulated. In this case just try finding a circulated version of this coin. I bet the rate would be 1000/1 with the 1 being circulated and the rest being high MS grades. None of the mintage figures are anywhere close to what actually exists to this day (I think most estimate only 15-17% of mintage figures actually still survived) and we all wish they had kept better records of what was being melted but that is just wishful thinking. Some of the coins that should be plentiful are so scarce that there are so many collectors of this series when one is found and comes to market you are battling allot of others for the coin and the price skyrockets. Then you have the ones that used to be rare and used to command a huge premium then all of a sudden a hoard of a few thousand of this one particular date is found and the price plummets on the coin you paid a huge premium for just a couple years before. I don't think there are very many more hoards to be found but I know my Grandfather had quite a hoard of coins even though no Morgans and he just died within the last few years so I am sure some others around his age are still living and had more liquid assets to purchase coins for a hoard so there may still be a couple hoards of coins to still be found within the next 15 years or so but I think most have been scarfed up and sold off already. If you want to read up on a few of the hoards that have been found already a few come to mind like the Redfield hoard, the Lone Star Hoard, Binion Hoard, Lincoln Highway Hoard, and there are many more, like the GSA Hoard the GOVT had in their possession all are interesting reads in my opinion and even though still a bag here and bag there are still found no real big hoards have been found in the past 20 years or so so I just wait for the next one
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Wornslick
Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
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Ozland
Valued Member
USA
273 Posts |
Posted 03/12/2010 9:20 pm
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It is estimated only about 2% of all Morgan dollars extant today are uncirculated. This is due to United States treasury releases in the early sixties. Morgan dollars at the time of their minting were not well accepted by the public and they piled up in the banks vaults. During World War I and World War II a great many Morgan dollars were melted for their silver content. Then again in the seventies and early eighties when the price of silver skyrocketed.
Accordingly, mintage figures have no real correlation as to what is available.
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Wornslick
Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
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Ozland
Valued Member
USA
273 Posts |
Posted 03/12/2010 10:56 pm
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There are a lot of educated guesses out in the market place.
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Bryan1315
Moderator
USA
7784 Posts |
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aladinslamp
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1031 Posts |
Posted 03/12/2010 11:28 pm
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so very true, as SuperDave. Osland and Bryan has said. its a market place like any commodity.. and the amount in motion does not represent what is actually in motion, meaning the mintage.....demand and supply factor in as well due to the mintage's which one would relate to how many are out there, are not factually correct....the 1921-s with 21 million.......mintage is priced well above the normal MS65 average morgan coins....even with 21 million mintage...however, its tuff to find one in that grade so that's why they are double the normal range of say $160 for an average MS65 morgan..... they simply don't exist..or the fact is why would all the collectors hold onto one year to hype up the value....no its not a consideration....coins are collectible and transferable as a value...the masses don't hoard a given year to hype the value.....one can only study the prices and trends of any given year and mint mark to figure whats the going rate.....
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hemisboats
Valued Member
United States
461 Posts |
Posted 03/13/2010 07:06 am
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I agree with the powers that be! The best way to understand the grading and pricing on Morgans and any coin for that matter is to understand the history behind the mintage.
Understanding the history will tell you not only when and how a coin becomes rare and scarce but also why. For example, the 1943 copper penny is so rare because of World War II. Again, the 19 4344 and 45 nickel was made from 40% silver and very little nickel at all because they needed the nickel for armor plating during the war.
So reading the history behind the coin and the events that surrounded its mintage is very important. Some coins were released right away and were used every single day by the public which wore them out quickly and others were put in the vault and never touched until the 60s while others were melted down and destroyed. Understanding how always combinations come together can be enlightening through the historical background of each coin.
A brief but quite concise starting point is the "US coin history" section of this forum! Hopefully everyone together has helped you.
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Wornslick
Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
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Wornslick
Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
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Bryan1315
Moderator
USA
7784 Posts |
Posted 03/13/2010 2:31 pm
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as I was saying about the 1878-S. We all know they made the 1878-S long nock because we have seen them in circulated grades and although they are considered rare if you would find one in MS-60 or above it would be a condition rarity which would make the price jump so high. So its not only the rarity of the coin its also the rarity of condition that comes into pricing
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Wornslick
Valued Member
United States
458 Posts |
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aladinslamp
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1031 Posts |
Posted 03/14/2010 12:14 am
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yes the listed......mintage, is not what has survived....and there are no calulators or mintage assessment's of what was melted. all we have is supply and demand..........think of 1921P DMPL for the year 44 million were produced.......should be a common coin, yet its a very high priced coin...simply due to you can't find one cheap.........the Morgan series is an incredible story by it self........over mintages and few mintages. and what did survive.....are what the market will bear....and the VAM'S that are in between.......that"s a great story!
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Metalman
Moderator
USA
6926 Posts |
Posted 03/14/2010 01:29 am
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Cois have always been priced by demand, and that is the way I see them being priced in the near future.
they are worth what someone will pay for them.
as for any type of scale Dave touched on conditional or survival reasoning, this is a very disrearded aspect of coin values in my opinion and worth the time invested to discover the nuances of.
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