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1877 Great Britain Large Penny - Large Date or Small Date

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Valued Member

United States
310 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2010  2:42 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Dcreek1968 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

greetings to the coin community forum and I am excited to be a new member. I'm looking for help in the attribution of a Great Britain large penny as having either a large date or small date. There is a significant price difference I am told. I have such a coin in probably XF to AU condition although it looks to have some hairlines from past handling. Any assistance or reference to sites where I can verify the large date vs small date would be greatly appreciated.

Dcreek1968

Pillar of the Community
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 06/25/2010  7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi, Dcreek, and welcome to the forum.
There's a reason why there's a significant difference in price. And the reason is that the "small date" is very rare. So, there's little chance that you have it.
I couldn't find any website that addresses the difference in date, but I can provide you with an image of the "large date" so you could compare with your coin. In one of my books they call the rare variety "narrow date". So look at the spacing between digits rather than the size of them. Good luck!


Valued Member
United Kingdom
60 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2010  02:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add argentumandcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Dcreek and welcome,
svslav is correct, it is actually a narrow date. The numerals are standard size and situated much more closely together. I have attached a picture of the narrow and wide date 1874 to show what the spacings should be like.
The narrow date 1877 is missing from my collection and with prices ranging from £4000 to £8000 for poor examples it may take a while to acquire!



Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
1492 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2010  05:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add alganbagerap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John, what do you regard as the best reference for British varieties? I'm learning more through this forum than I ever did from Seaby.
I want to own more medals than a four star general. Give generously
Valued Member
United Kingdom
60 Posts
 Posted 06/26/2010  07:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add argentumandcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Copper and tin; Peck
Silver 1649 onwards; Rayner, English silver coinage
Silver since 1816; Peter Davies
Gold; Kenyon
Hammered; North
Bronze coinage since 1860; Freeman
British Bronze Penny; Gouby

I consider the above to be absolutely essential reference for general coins. There are more specialist books for specific areas.
The little lot above will cost a small fortune however, so it's easier just put a question on the forum!
Valued Member
Australia
144 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2010  12:34 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bryan10au to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi just out of curiosity what is Seaby? I assume it is a reference book but does it just relate to British coins in general or world coins. I personally use Spink's book of England coins.
Back to the original question according to Spink the narrow date reverse appeared on three dates 1874,1875 and 1877. However it is only the 1877 one that commands a premium and the only grade it gives a price for is Fine which is priced at £1000.
Thanks
Bryan
Valued Member
United Kingdom
60 Posts
 Posted 06/27/2010  03:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add argentumandcoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hello Bryan,
Seaby used to publish a book similar to Spinks, they also published English Silver Coinage. The only publications of theirs that I have seen related to British coins.
The 76H was also narrow date.
Spinks is okay, but the pricing is way out of touch with auction and dealer prices alike.
John.
Valued Member
Australia
144 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2010  02:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bryan10au to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for the information on Seaby John very much appreciated.
Cheers
Bryan
Valued Member
United States
310 Posts
 Posted 06/29/2010  10:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Dcreek1968 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
To all, thanks so much for the information. The pictures are the best information I've seen to date and greatly appreciated. They would also indicate that the 1877 version I have is the large date as there appears to be considerable spacing between the numerals in the date. The date extends from the left side of the shield to nearly the right ankle of the figure. Again, many thanks to everyone for taking the time to respond.

Dcreek1968
New Member
United Kingdom
5 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2012  1:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Oldpennyman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply


New Member
United Kingdom
5 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2012  1:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Oldpennyman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi. The 1877 'narrow date' British penny is documented in Micheal Freeman's book called "The Bronze Coinage of Great Britain". It's very rare...probably only a handful known. The last example sold on eBay.com for 7250.00 GBP. Photo attached showing what this variety looks like.

Valued Member
United Kingdom
128 Posts
 Posted 05/10/2012  5:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add MikeG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting; is it the earlier Victorian pennies that are valuable in the 'narrow date' format or is it all Victorian ones?
Found this in my collection but may well have some more; will have a search tomorrow.

Pillar of the Community
United States
2605 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2012  12:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add svslav to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The "small date" scarcer variety occurred in 1857 - 59 for copper issue pennies.
The "narrow date" variety is recognized for years 1874 - 77 and 1879 for bronze pennies.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
128 Posts
 Posted 05/11/2012  02:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add MikeG to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks svslav, I'll have to have a hunt for some of those rarer early ones.
New Member
United Kingdom
5 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2013  05:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Oldpennyman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
A well-known Midlands dealer located an 1877 narrow date penny last year in a small tin of coins. It was very worn although the date was just still visible. It sold for £3,300 plus commission on 4th June 2012. Check out the auction lot here

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=...searchtype=2
New Member
United Kingdom
5 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2013  06:23 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Oldpennyman to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Check out this 1877 narrow date penny which sold for £6,000 in 2010 at the same auction house....

http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=...searchtype=2
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