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 Posted 08/05/2011  12:02 pm  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see no reason to doubt that pattern of coloration on a Barber coin. The images are too small to determine if it's been cleaned, but the overall appearance is quite believable.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, numismo - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

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 Posted 08/05/2011  4:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Dave. Glad to know it look fine to you; I can't wait for that particular coin to arrive -it will be my first barber half-.
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 Posted 08/05/2011  5:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just found this video that you might like to have a look at from a mint in China that counterfeits coins. Is there an easy way to spot these chinese fakes? What would you look for?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plkYmX2tde0
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134 Posts
 Posted 08/06/2011  10:24 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
found something else on the edge of the Morgan dollar that might or might no be significant:



And I also found in my collection this Liberty Half Dollar with this strange surface. What's even more strange is that the worn parts of the figure show the exact same surface as the field, when they should have the typical worn surface. The rest is fine: it's silver and the measurements are right.



Oh, I also found another coin in my collection that's puzzling me. It's a 2009 1 Oz silver eagle, but this one is not like the rest; it has a frosted finish all over the coin. I checked to see if could find any mention of full frosted silver eagles, but I couldn't find anything; just the regular proofs with frosted figures and mirror fields. Has anyone ever heard of a coin like this?
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134 Posts
 Posted 08/08/2011  4:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I was just looking at pictures of these Chinese fakes, and I noticed something that I have doubts about which you might be able to help me with.



This is a picture of a fake Morgan dollar -supposedly Chinese- on which you can see a ring around the outtermost part of the rim; probably because the die was slightly smaller than the planchet.

This is an authentic Morgan dollar without that ring on the outside of the rim:



My doubt is: is this characteristic of fake coins, or can you also find it in authentic coins?
Edited by silvermaniac
08/08/2011 4:38 pm
Valued Member
Spain
134 Posts
 Posted 08/14/2011  6:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Anyone?



Is this rim characteristic of fake coins, like this counterfeit Morgan dollar, or can you also find it in authentic coins?

I'm asking because lately I'm seeing more of these coins with this sort of double border on the rim, and many of those coins usually also have a different look than the ones with the smooth rim below (i.e. they look too clean for their age, and often come without tonning).

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 Posted 08/14/2011  6:24 pm  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I'd be immediately suspicious of it, but would need to see the whole coin. The lettering is as iffy as the rim. Note the "drawing" of the serifs towards the rim - most noticeable with the you - a characteristic of a very worn die which I've seen in Morgans before. Had this been a fairly long "production" run of a weak counterfeit die, I could imagine seeing the same thing, but it's be difficult to fake some other way, and would not be advisable for an intelligent conterfeiter (yeah, I know, oxymoron).

No trouble believing it's a fake, but no generalizations can be made about any feature in that picture.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, numismo - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
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Spain
134 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2011  11:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Dave,

That was an example of a fake Morgan dollar that I found on the internet; on which I noticed this irregularity on the rim.

Here is an example in one of my coins; it's a French Silver 2 Francs coins from 1915, and as you can see it also has this double border on the rim.



The case is, I find many of these French franks with this double rim, and I noticed that those without tonning and most of its lustre show this kind of rim; everything else is right (weight, measures, etc).

I have other coins with this feature from other countries; all common silver coins -nothing special about them, common unexpensive years; just of a rather high grade.
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 Posted 08/15/2011  11:49 am  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The trouble is, a few different things could cause the rim of a coin to look that way. A broken collar, for instance, could not only lead to something resembling the Morgan fake posted above, but be a factor in the "drawn" look of the letters. The clearest diagnostic for that coin is the non-believable shape of the B.

I see not a darn thing wrong with the 2 Franc. The *slightest* of die misalignment could cause its' appearance.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, numismo - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
Valued Member
Spain
134 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2011  2:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Glad to hear that Dave. For a moment, when I saw that rim on that fake Morgan dollar I began to fear it could be a feature of those new chinese copies that everyone talks about.

Now that I saw how this guy spotted this fake Morgan dollar (by looking at the legends and comparing details), I took a closer look at the one that I posted last week -the one that was a bit shorter than 38mm- and I noticed this by comparing them in Photoshop:

This is a close up of the reverse of the suspected one:



And this is another close up of another Morgan dollar (one from 1921):



If you compare the tips of the arrows, they are different: the first ones are longer and narrower, while the second ones are shorter and wider. Also, the space between the leg and the tail are different in both coins.

I also noticed other small difference, like the distance between the legend "In God we trust" and the wing...





Could this be a different die; taking into account that the first coin is from 1896 and the second from 1921 (though both from Philadephia)?
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134 Posts
 Posted 08/15/2011  3:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just downloaded more pictures of 1896 and 1921 Morgan dollars, and yes, it seems there used two different dies... did they?

All my newest Morgan dollars match the second die, and older Morgan dollars that I found on the internet match the first die.

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 Posted 08/16/2011  12:34 am  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
1921 used an entirely different design. As you've noticed.

By then, all the original Morgan dies had been destroyed; they had to start fresh.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, numismo - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
Valued Member
Spain
134 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  08:01 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I see, so there are only 2 different dies: one for 1921 and another for the previous years.

Well, I think that's it; I can't find any other coins I suspect -with the exception of the 2009 Silver Eagle that seems to have a frosted look all over-.

Thank you all for your help; and if there's anything I can help you with, please let me know.
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 Posted 08/16/2011  11:29 am  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I see, so there are only 2 different dies: one for 1921 and another for the previous years.


Unfortunately, not quite.

During the first year of mintage, 1878, you'll find three different obverse and reverse designs used. The differences are minor, but the attention to detail you've displayed here means you'll see them. Some of the earlier designs were used in 1879 and 1880 at various of the mints; following that, the final designs continued with only the slightest of changes through 1904.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, numismo - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
Valued Member
Spain
134 Posts
 Posted 08/16/2011  1:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add silvermaniac to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
For now I don't have many Morgan dollars; just a couple of them previous to 1921 and another couple from 1921 and 1921s; that's the reason why I had so many doubts about them.

Do you know if they used different dies on the same year and mint? For example, I collect variations of british silver coins, which can come in up to 10 different combinations of obverse and reverse dies for the exact same year.

Do you know of any website that shows these different dies?

Another question: do you think that those Chinese counterfeits could get all the details right; or would you be able to spot them easily?
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