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Metalman
Moderator
USA
6533 Posts |
 Posted 06/24/2005 3:13 pm
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Hi Everyone
Where do you draw the line between Modern and old coins ?
This is a question that I asked in a topic discussion concerning ICG and there over grading of modern coins , as a second question do you think that a coin grading company should be able to grade within there own criteria, both Modern and old coins at the same standard in other words should an MS-69 Kennedy and an MS-69 franklin be held to the same standard (as an example only) ?
Rick
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national dealer
Pillar Of The Community
USA
2724 Posts |
Posted 06/24/2005 3:31 pm
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Most consider the cutoff between old and modern at 1934.
Should a grading company be able to grade consistantly? Absolutely. Using the same standards however between series is often impossible. Older coins were made using different materials, different presses, different dies, different techniques all around. You certainly cannot grade an early flowing hair dollar with the same standards used in grading Morgan dollars.
Due to the fact that modern coins have a better all around strike, they have to be graded by newer standards. Many of the grading companies are basing their grades on what the market expects more than what the coin deserves.
This is the largest problem with coin grading. No one uses a technical grading standard. If the market "wants" top grades, the market gets top grades.
ICG followed the standards set forth on the older coins, and they do this very well. Most pre-1934 coins graded by ICG will cross over grade for grade. The problem with the modern coins basically is the need. The vast majority of these ultra grades are being sold on online auctions where the buyers are very limited in their coin knowledge. They think that each and every new coin looks perfect. They have no clue what strike means, what planchet preperation means, what die markers mean, and so on. They look at the coin overall and see no flaws. This makes the coin perfect.
The vast majority of "new" grading companies popping up fill this void by grading "perfect" coins over and over. They slab these coins for a few dollars and meet the expectations of these online buyers and sellers.
This new way of buying and selling coins has created many new markets. As many who have followed my posts concerning this trend have noted, the market is reflecting this lately. Modern coin values are falling through the floor. There are just not enough people willing to pay thousands of dollars for a perfect Statehood quarter.
Until someone in this hobby creates a standard for grading that all will follow, this large descrepency will continue.
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Edited by national dealer - 06/24/2005 3:33 pm |
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Metalman
Moderator
USA
6533 Posts |
Posted 06/24/2005 3:53 pm
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Its interesting that 1934 would be chosen,, ?
Ive have always I guess looked at my coins this way,By seperation of design? Kennedies to me are Modern ,but franklins are old, by metal content and design,Walkers are old by design only, and so on back in time, I've used this for each denomination,of course with the Lincoln cent there is more than one seperation .snd the Roosevelt dimes by metal and date only.
Is this a wrong way of determining between old and Modern ?
Rick
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Edited by Metalman - 06/24/2005 4:03 pm |
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national dealer
Pillar Of The Community
USA
2724 Posts |
Posted 06/24/2005 3:58 pm
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There is NO wrong way of looking at coins or collecting them. The industry created a date for whatever reason. I am still not sure why 1934 was chosen, and haven't met anyone that does.
I consider "old" coins dated prior to 1839, collector coins until 1899, and modern 1900 to date, but that is just me.
I know of ancient dealers who think anything minted by or for the US to be modern 
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SFDukie
Pillar Of The Community
USA
980 Posts |
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Ætheling
Valued Member
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United Kingdom
188 Posts |
Posted 06/24/2005 5:05 pm
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I call modern anything minted after 1816.
Although depending upon the circumstances modern could also be 1500 or 1662.
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Mike
Forum Uncle
USA
2883 Posts |
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OldDan
Pillar Of The Community
USA
1203 Posts |
Posted 06/24/2005 6:25 pm
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quote:
Originally posted by national dealer
I consider "old" coins dated prior to 1839, collector coins until 1899, and modern 1900 to date, but that is just me.
Like you, these are the dates I would have to put on the coins in question. I have found that as you get older, you tend to push these dates further and further back. But this is where it is now and I can live with it.
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SE
Valued Member
USA
256 Posts |
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SFDukie
Pillar Of The Community
USA
980 Posts |
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toast
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
1091 Posts |
Posted 06/25/2005 03:29 am
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For me a modern coin is a "type" that is still made and used in circulation. So a Silver Roosevelt dime, I would still be modern. A Mercury dime I would consider old, as they are not in circulation.
So Kennedy Half dollars are modern and Franklin Half dollars are old. Susan B Anthony dollars are old, LOL.[:p]
Ancient coins are ones that are not dated, so I bunch up the 1500 coins in with them as they have no date.
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Edited by toast - 06/25/2005 03:30 am |
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Ætheling
Valued Member
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United Kingdom
188 Posts |
Posted 06/25/2005 03:38 am
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quote:
Hi Aetheling,
Assume you chose 1662 as that was when milled coins were first minted. I don't know the significance of 1500- can you enlighten me?
Thanks,
Don
Yes 1662 was the date Britain switched to machine made coins (i.e milled)
1816 was the date Britain switched from the old style milled coins (Early Milled) to modern milled with steam presses. (Although some coins had been minted with steam presses in 1797).
1500, it should really be 1502, but give or take a year or two. This was when the old fashioned stylised imagery of king's on coins were replaced by the 'profile' issue, that is basically a portrait that actually looked like the current king. It was the date that England broke with it's medieval past and the coins became modern. (1500 is also what historians refer to as the end of the medieval period and the start of Early Modern history that runs into the 18th century). Modern British history begins in 1750, modern French history began arguably in 1789. So whilst the dates differ the century tends to be the same.
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Edited by Ætheling - 06/25/2005 03:41 am |
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ageka
Pillar Of The Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
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Ætheling
Valued Member
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United Kingdom
188 Posts |
Posted 06/25/2005 05:39 am
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Many say 1950 is the moderd cut off date.
Just to give an idea of how complex this could get (as well as with the previous post on US coins, modern being considered what is still circulating).
Well just on Brit coins;
Copper collectors would say 1860 is modern.
Bronze collectors say 1936.
Silver collectors can say either 1920 (since silver went down from .925 to .500 in that year), or they can say 1947 which was the year silver was removed.
Gold collectors can say either 1917 (last of the London mint sovereigns, except the one off 1925 issue) or 1932 (last sovereigns)
Some would say 1968 the year decimal coins arrived.
Looking at Germany you could argue 1948/9 when German began issuing it's own coins again (i forget the exact date) but it was after the allied occupation issues.
France you could argue that it is when they went decimal with the Revolution.
There is no one cutoff date. With US coins I tend to favour the 1950 option. Although I do consider coins issued after 1933 new coins because of the end of the gold standard. I can't even agree with myself!
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cladking
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USA
461 Posts |
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crystalk64
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USA
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