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El-Cheapo lenses

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 Posted 12/24/2011  3:11 pm  Show Profile Check rmpsrpms's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
They made Componar (3L 3G), Componar-S (4L 3G), Componar-C (3L 3G), Comparon (4L 3G), Componon (6L 4G), and Componon-S (6L 4G). Every one of them is at least good and the Componon and especially Componon-S are world-class. See Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schneider_Kreuznach
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 Posted 12/24/2011  4:26 pm  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Cheap lens, scary results:



35mm Spiratone Macrotar. I just cranked up the magnification and let it fly. No technique refinements whatsoever, the very first time I've used the lens. That's the whole image, not a crop and forced to 1000px in width.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, coinguybrian, numismo, Johnny54321 - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
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 Posted 12/24/2011  8:27 pm  Show Profile Check rmpsrpms's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very, very nice.

Do you have a Sigma counterfeit there? I thought he only did Gold coins? Oh wait, that was Omega. Maybe he did Gold coins as "Omega" and silver coins as "Sigma"?
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 Posted 12/24/2011  10:36 pm  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heh. That's the wreath of the 1921 Morgan being discussed here:

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...IC_ID=105744

Magnification is approximately 4.5x, and the working distance was right about 1". I'm going to need a ring light to use that much mag with this lens. I set the aperture to f/8 at the lens, and still didn't have enough depth of field to do this shot correctly without a stack; that's why the relief is out of focus - I was concentrating on the polishing lines.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, coinguybrian, numismo, Johnny54321 - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
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 Posted 12/24/2011  11:25 pm  Show Profile Check rmpsrpms's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WARNING: I need to warn folks regarding the eBay item I linked to earlier:

http://cgi.ebay.com/80MM-80-5-6-VIV...em53ea4b05eb

I own a few examples of this lens, and some are clear while some show internal haze. In most cases, with other lens brands and models, I've been able to open up a lens and clean it out, eliminating the haze and bringing the lens to as-new performance. Tonight I tried opening one of these 80mm VHE lenses that has internal haze, and found the haze was the result of coating separation on one inner lens. This is likely the same problem for the other hazy VHE's I own so this is a warning to avoid the auction above. It describes the lens as having internal haze, and based on this latest experience it may not be fixable...Ray
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 Posted 12/25/2011  1:35 pm  Show Profile Check rmpsrpms's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
We had some discussion here regarding the Tominon lenses, which are not really El-Cheapos unless you can get a really good deal on one. Well, I got lucky with a purchase of a 35mm f4.5 Tominon for the Polaroid MP4 system, and threw it on the bellows. Here is the first image from that lens. Simple 2-image stack, reduced to 800px for display. this is about the max magnification I can get from this lens on the bellows without adding more extension on camera side. It's approx 4:1 magnification, which would make the effective aperture around f22 (infinity aperture * (M+1)). This was small enough that I only needed 2 images to get a reasonable DOF. I'd prefer if it was a bit bigger aperture so I could get better sharpness as f22 is fairly diffraction-limited, and with the lens wide open it suffers from some aberrations. But the result is not too bad.

Because I am shooting Nikon, I had to play games to avoid the shutter vibration problem I've seen so often at these magnifications. What I did for this shot is reduce the lighting and lower the ISO, so the shutter speed is like 1.3sec. I compared with shorter speeds and this gives me better vibration reduction. Let me know what you all think...Ray

PS the image is a 1949-D Lincoln Cent RPM #5. I took a pic of it since I am trading it to an LCR forum member for some other RPMs I need.



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Edited by rmpsrpms
12/25/2011 1:38 pm
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 Posted 12/25/2011  2:02 pm  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There ain't a whole lot wrong with that shot.

The vibration problem at these mags is insane. Even tethered to the computer and shooting remotely, I have to take my mouse completely off the desk (it's wireless, thank goodness) and click it from my knee, with no part of me touching the desk when I shoot. I can rest my hand on the keyboard's gel pad and see the vibrations it causes on my monitor, even though the camera is on a different panel of my corner desk, only connected via bolts.
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, coinguybrian, numismo, Johnny54321 - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
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 Posted 12/25/2011  3:15 pm  Show Profile Check rmpsrpms's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
SuperDave...I noticed in your pictures of Santoku that the lens standard is just "hanging" there, supported only by the bellows posts. If you wedge something like a chunk of wood or rubber between the lens standard and the mount, it will reduce the tendency to vibrate...Ray
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 Posted 12/25/2011  5:54 pm  Show Profile Check rmpsrpms's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
OK, now to compare what you get with an expensive lens compared with the relative El-Cheapo. The Tominon 35mm f4.5 will cost perhaps $35-40 if you are patient. I happen to own a Canon 20mm f3.5 Macro Lens (about 10x as expensive) and took a picture of the same coin with it. The minimum magnification of the Canon was higher than the Tominon since the Canon is shorter, so I downsized and cropped them to get a better match in screen size. Here are the results:

Here is the Tominon:



And here is the Canon:



The Canon has a larger max aperture, and fewer aberrations wide open, so gives a sharper result. But it's not THAT MUCH better than the Tominon, and in fact I'm pretty please with the Tominon result. Also, the Tominon only required a 2-image stack while the Canon required 3 due to the aperture difference.
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 Posted 12/28/2011  11:40 pm  Show Profile Check rmpsrpms's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here is an excellent deal on a Tominon 75mm Macro Lens ($40):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/19061943510....m1438.l2649

And from the same seller (can you say combined shipping?) an even better deal for the matching Tominon 105mm Macro Lens (also $40, a total steal)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/20069262557....m1438.l2649
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 Posted 12/28/2011  11:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add aladinslamp to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The Tominon looks pretty good, I just bought the 135MM real cheap by accedient...Holidays ect..
Like you have always said, the expensive lenses are better but as you have shown, the tominon is no slouch for the money...
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 Posted 12/30/2011  10:20 am  Show Profile Check brg5658's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add brg5658 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can someone point me to how I would go about setting up one of these enlarger lenses to work on my Canon 50D? I have been looking at the $600 Canon 2.8 100mm Macro lenses, and I don't want to drop that kind of money if I don't have to. I'm confused by what adapters are needed to get the various lenses to work with the Canon 50D. If possible, the complete gory details about what I need. I already have lights (Jansjos and Otts), a copy stand, remote release cable, and the Canon 50D body.

Do I need bellows to use these lenses?

What do the different M42, MS39, etc mean?

I'm looking at a "Spiratone 75mm 3 1/2" ENLARGING LENS", is this usable with my setup?

THANKS so much in advance,
-Brandon
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 Posted 12/30/2011  11:37 am  Show Profile Check SsuperDdave's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
You're probably best off with a bellows setup for such a lens. It can be done straight to your camera with adapters, but this will lock you into a certain level of magnification which won't be optimal for every coin. Similar for tube extenders - you'll get the magnification more into the sweet spot for your lens, but will still be locked into one mag.

Read this:

http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/...02825#896801
The best thing about a bicycle is that it uses no gasoline, therefore the chance of fiery death is greatly reduced.

Catman, Gary Burke, Bigg Fredd, coinguybrian, numismo, Johnny54321 - CCF members emeritus, now part of Heaven's Own Coin Club.

Our members sell on eBay!
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 Posted 12/30/2011  11:41 am  Show Profile Check brg5658's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add brg5658 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi SuperDave, thanks for the note. I purchased this lens: http://www.ebay.com/itm/26032925838....m1439.l2649

Where do I find what kind of adaptors I need to get this connected to my setup? I have some extension tubes already (3 different lengths) that I may play with before investing in a bellows. I am at a loss to be able to tell once I get the lense what gadgetry I need to connect it all together.

Thanks!
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 Posted 12/30/2011  12:24 pm  Show Profile Check rmpsrpms's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add rmpsrpms to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Brandon...enlarger lenses don't have focusing mechanisms so you will need a bellows to adjust the distance between camera and lens. This works the same as the focus mechanism in a regular lens assembly. Farther the lens is from the camera, the closer you can get to the coin and the higher the magnification.

M42, M39, etc are older lens mounts that thread on instead of mounting with a "bayonet" style like Canon, Nikon, etc. M39 means the threads are 39mm dia, while M42 are 42mm dia. T-Mount is similar to M42 but with a finer thread pitch.

Most enlarger lenses (like the Spiratone you are considering) mount with M39 thread. So you will almost always need an adapter from the bellows to fit the M39 lens onto it.

So...you will need to choose a bellows, and then adapters to fit the camera and lens to the bellows.

I will usually recommend a M42 or T-Mount bellows. Pentax or Vivitar are the best for this. You could buy a Canon bellows but will need to adapt both sides anyway unless you buy one of the cheap Chinese bellows that are out there.

Does that answer your questions? Let us know if you need more help or specific recommendations.
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