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Fake silver bullion

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bekiz
Pillar Of The Community
Japan
640 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2012  11:14 pm Show Profile Check bekiz's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add bekiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Follow the link
http://www.ozcopper.com/fake-silver-warning/

Valued Member
Canada
178 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2012  11:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ztt2 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Good read. Thanks bekiz. I bought my SML on eBay a while back. You have no idea how hard I was inspecting it just now. :P
Pillar Of The Community
Japan
640 Posts
 Posted 03/25/2012  11:27 pm  Show Profile Check bekiz's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add bekiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ztt2, I know that, that's why I am trying to buy from people and places I know. )))
Just be aware, that along with fake gold bars (there are some in the market as well with tungsten) there are some silver as well.
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Australia
8603 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  12:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It is possible to cobble together an alloy that has the same density of silver, and heavily silver plate that, before striking.

A silver plated ingot, bar or disc of lead / bismuth alloy should do the trick nicely.

Lead density 11.7 g/cc,
Bismuth density 9.8 g/cc,
Silver 10.5 g/cc.

9.23 parts of lead to 10.70 parts of bismuth would yield the correct density. Would give a white core (at least for a while), as well.

BTW, a liquid lead - bismuth alloy has been used a an atomic reactor coolant in Soviet submarines.
Edited by sel_69l
03/26/2012 12:59 am
Valued Member
Canada
271 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  07:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add OddCoins to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ugh! Is there no escape from counterfeits?
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1392 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  08:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
@OddCoins - Counterfeiting is as old as coinage. :-P

The best weapon against it is education. All of the items mentioned in that ozcopper set of videos can be easily identified if you know what to look for and are careful with your purchases.
-Steve (GSNA R-2306)
The Black Cabinet
A Database of Counterfeit Coins.
Counterfeit identification and attribution services.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1419 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  08:45 am  Show Profile Check traevin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add traevin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
It is possible to cobble together an alloy that has the same density of silver, and heavily silver plate that, before striking.

A silver plated ingot, bar or disc of lead / bismuth alloy should do the trick nicely.

Lead density 11.7 g/cc,
Bismuth density 9.8 g/cc,
Silver 10.5 g/cc.

9.23 parts of lead to 10.70 parts of bismuth would yield the correct density. Would give a white core (at least for a while), as well.

BTW, a liquid lead - bismuth alloy has been used a an atomic reactor coolant in Soviet submarines.


Sel,
I wonder how profitable it is to do such? IDK, but it will become prevalent once AG hits a certain dollar figure. Then, watch out.

BTW, I have two examples of fake silver bullion in my collection. Another, I shipped straight to the US Secret Service office. One guess of provenance?
If you haven't noticed by now, I don't proofread veery well and I apollogize profusely. (;>D
Edited by traevin
03/26/2012 08:50 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1392 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  08:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
It's very profitable to do it now, traevin, especially in large volume, which is what Chinese manufacturers are doing. With their current numbers, they're able to make a tidy profit even selling them at $2-$4 wholesale. :-P
-Steve (GSNA R-2306)
The Black Cabinet
A Database of Counterfeit Coins.
Counterfeit identification and attribution services.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1419 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  10:44 am  Show Profile Check traevin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add traevin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I noticed one major flaw in the three eBay fakes I've received. None weighted exactly what it was supposed to, and most weren't even close. If anyone receives a coin and there is an iota of doubt about its authenticity, start there first, making certain that the weight is precisely where it should be. The fakes have definitely gotten better and harder to spot, judging from the video. At this point, I may just start weighing every single coin I buy, especially the ones from out of the country. I don't buy from China but I do have a few sellers from Eastern Europe, and that could be just as bad, I suppose.
If you haven't noticed by now, I don't proofread veery well and I apollogize profusely. (;>D
Pillar Of The Community
United States
705 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  10:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add coinwatch to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
None weighted exactly what it was supposed to, and most weren't even close.


How far off of the published coin weight are we talking? Grams? Tenths of grams? Hundredths? When do you stop thinking standard slight variations between minted coins and, "whoa!" time to contact the Secret Service?

Pillar Of The Community
United States
1419 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  11:32 am  Show Profile Check traevin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add traevin to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
How far off of the published coin weight are we talking? Grams? Tenths of grams? Hundredths? When do you stop thinking standard slight variations between minted coins and, "whoa!" time to contact the Secret Service?


One of the China Pandas weighed 27 grams instead of 31. The two China 2008 Olympic Commemorative coins were around 22 grams, rather than the full ounce. I knew something was wrong with the latter as soon as I felt them. The 2008 coins were also missing the Yuan symbol, which was a dead giveaway upon closer inspection. I was suspicious about the Panda and had to weigh it in order to verify that something was wrong. All three were 40 mm, just thinner than they should have been.
If you haven't noticed by now, I don't proofread veery well and I apollogize profusely. (;>D
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4008 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  7:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Ed_B to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting video but beware guys who do not know that grinding on metal makes it get HOT.

This whole subject is yet another reason to only deal with quality dealers for our PM needs.
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United States
1791 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  7:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angel2004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This along with the Gold bars I read about in great Britain that were 2 grams lighter and had Tungsten in them. Frightening
Pillar Of The Community
Japan
640 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  8:37 pm  Show Profile Check bekiz's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add bekiz to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
here's about tungsten in gold bar... story mentioned by angel2004
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/tungs...bar-found-uk
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1791 Posts
 Posted 03/26/2012  8:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add angel2004 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Yes and I wonder if any of the altered bars accidentally get mixed in a melt. Hopefully all are weighed and assayed
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
8603 Posts
 Posted 03/27/2012  03:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Heavily gold plated tungsten bars are fun.
Tungsten has the same density as gold.
And yes! Tungsten HAS been used to make fake gold bars!
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