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Metal Refinery Costs, Some Statistics Please?

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1532 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  9:51 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Petersun to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Hello:
I would like to have some statistics about refinery costs to melt coins.

First of all, for the melting and refinery costs, does it matter which kind of metal the coins contains? Please note that I am talking about pure metal here, that means 99.999% pure. In generally, what costs should I expect from refining factries?

Second, does anyone here knows if there are any metal refineries near Vancouver, BC? What about the West Coast of Washington State?

Finally, other than silver, is it ideal to melt a large amount of nickels (pre 1981), since they're pure and it wouldn't take any extra energies to separate atomes?

Joined on Nov 05 2011
Became a valued member on Nov 28 2011
Pillar of the Community -- May 28 2012
Pillar of the Community
Canada
834 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  10:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add swrbxxx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Why would you melt .999 pure items.
its already pure
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1532 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  10:10 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petersun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Just like I asked, is it ideal to melt .999 pur nickels into bars, because metal investors don't usually buy nickel coins.
Joined on Nov 05 2011
Became a valued member on Nov 28 2011
Pillar of the Community -- May 28 2012
Edited by Petersun
03/29/2012 10:11 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
834 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  10:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add swrbxxx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
why would they buy a bar with no markings and really no proof that it is pure .999
a nickel is a nickel and verified that it is .999 pure by the RCM
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1532 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  10:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petersun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Well, you could just mark the bars while refining.
Joined on Nov 05 2011
Became a valued member on Nov 28 2011
Pillar of the Community -- May 28 2012
Pillar of the Community
United States
4381 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  10:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add amida17 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Well, you could just mark the bars while refining.



You could but...... as a buyer would you buy a bar marked by some random smelter without having it assayed? No? Neither will anyone else. So there is the dilemma...you would never get the cost back by making "pure" bars....
"If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people-their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties-someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal", then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

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Edited by amida17
03/29/2012 10:42 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
646 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  10:43 pm  Show Profile Check Pokermandude's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
why would they buy a bar with no markings and really no proof that it is pure .999
a nickel is a nickel and verified that it is .999 pure by the RCM


Because it would be much easier to sell a known bar labelled .999 pure rather than checking the dates on every nickel you're buying to see if it's pre-1982 (.999 nickel) rather than a 1982-date coin that is 25% or 0% nickel.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
834 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  10:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add swrbxxx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pokermandude,

with a labelled bar comes assay fee's, melting fee's and for what a bar of pure Nickel. Even if it is marked .999 I am positive there would not be to many people interested. Versus pre 1982 .999 nickels which are easily identifiable and verified by the RCM.
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 03/29/2012  11:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
First of all, for the melting and refinery costs, does it matter which kind of metal the coins contains? Please note that I am talking about pure metal here, that means 99.999% pure. In generally, what costs should I expect from refining factries?

If you want five nines silver or platinum, it's gonna cost.

Every refinery has their own schedule, generally based on incoming purity and volume.

Quote:
Finally, other than silver, is it ideal to melt a large amount of nickels (pre 1981), since they're pure and it wouldn't take any extra energies to separate atomes?

A great idea. By the time you're out of jail, it might even be legal.
Previously Ousted
Canada
398 Posts
 Posted 03/30/2012  01:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add coingirl to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
$ 230 minimum for melting a minimum quantity of 200 ounces and the following assay. ( DID I SAY MELTING?.. after shipping out of the country!)
another $10 per ounce minimum for making it into a certifiable bar
another $10 per ounce minimum for certifying a bar..
take your pick....
it all comes included starting at 2000 ounces...
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1532 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2012  12:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petersun to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
This is what I have decieded to do with my pure nickel coins: Roll them up and sell them in rolls once I have no more space for them.
Joined on Nov 05 2011
Became a valued member on Nov 28 2011
Pillar of the Community -- May 28 2012
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1326 Posts
 Posted 03/31/2012  11:10 pm  Show Profile Check Wade's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
i deal in a lot of scrap metals at work, for nickel (and copper) coins you would have to be dealing in industrial quantities, like tonnes... in those cases the people buying it (overseas) will do there own smelting/refining (no scrap yards in canada want to deal with nickels or pennies).

it's probably tough enough to get someone to melt legal tender in canada (other than silver), can't imagine the storm that exporting a container of coins would cause (anything over $10,000 undeclared and you risk getting it confiscated)

if you do find a junkie willing to take your coins, anything less than large volumes and you will get paid for contaminated or stainless steel rates at about $1.50 per pound (i think nickel is somewhere around $9 a pound)

Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  06:09 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
, Pokermandude!


Quote:
Because it would be much easier to sell a known bar labelled .999 pure rather than checking the dates on every nickel you're buying to see if it's pre-1982 (.999 nickel) rather than a 1982-date coin that is 25% or 0% nickel.


.999 nickel is magnetic, pretty sure .250 isn't. Keep in mind, nickel is traded by tons, my guess would be in hundred pound bars. So the options are:

1) Pay money to a dishonest refiner to illegally melt down nickels into a block or blocks of metal and stamp the bars as .999 nickel, which no one will believe (see "dishonest refiner".

2) Keep nickels as is, in 5 gram multiples, of purity guaranteed by the gubmint of Canada, in a form every schoolkid recognizes.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
646 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  12:06 pm  Show Profile Check Pokermandude's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pokermandude to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
True .250 nickel isn't magnetic, but the newer steel plated coins are. If you guys have ever bought or sold junk silver dimes/quarters (other than to a refinery) you'll know what a time consuming pain it can be to verify the silver content. It is easy to not get any post-1967 nickel coins, but there's often a 1967 or 1968 silver that squeaks in even if you check them thoroughly. Then there's the counting and calculating the total metal contents, etc. If you're buying 100oz+ it is quite a chore.

There are good reasons why .999 silver bars and coins trade at a stiff premium over the old coinage. Eventually we'll see the same thing with nickel and copper, probably 30-40 years down the road.


Quote:
2) Keep nickels as is, in 5 gram multiples, of purity guaranteed by the gubmint of Canada, in a form every schoolkid recognizes.


I don't agree with the bolded statement at all. A good percentage of the public still thinks we have silver in our newly minted coins. Outside of the coin collecting community, no one has a clue what our coins are made of, nor do they really care. In a couple generations down the road and the only "schoolboys" who will know offhand what years of nickels were actually nickel, will be in the old folks home.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
834 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  1:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add swrbxxx to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I buy and sell .925 .800 .500 silver coinage all the time, the math is very simple.
As for pure nickels you melt them down and I'll sell mine by the rolled pound see who's sells quicker. I average about 10plus pounds a week being sold on eBay at 14.00$ a pound
Valued Member
Canada
83 Posts
 Posted 04/03/2012  1:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Crockett to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I return all my post 62 nickels to the bank after being searched of course, and get more.
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