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jdheyne
Pillar Of The Community
USA
772 Posts |
 Posted 11/01/2009 4:25 pm
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So I purchased a 1909-S VDB PCGS VF20, sight-unseen from an auction. Little-to-no problem right? No.
The coin is actually a 1909-S, without a VDB. I have shown it to numerous people and sure enough, no VDB.
So I remembered PCGS Guarantee. http://www.pcgs.com/guarantee.chtml
Alright, so I figured I will send it back in. But then I got to reading what the guarantee does not cover....
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The following is further explanation of what the PCGS Guarantee does not cover.
Clerical or "mechanical" errors. PCGS occasionally makes clerical errors in inputting data which is shown on the insert in the PCGS holder; consequently the PCGS Guarantee does not cover obvious clerical errors, what we call "mechanical errors." Examples would include the following:
A date listed on the holder that does not match the date of the coin. For example, if you had a 1928 $20 St. Gaudens, but the PCGS holder showed the date as 1929 (a much more valuable coin), this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date on the coin itself is obviously 1928.
A designation that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a 1945 Philadelphia Mercury dime and the bands on the reverse were as flat as a pancake and obviously not fully struck, but the PCGS holder showed the designation as "FB" for fully struck crossbands, this coin would not be covered the PCGS Guarantee as the crossbands are obviously not fully struck.
Proofs shown as regular strikes and regular strikes shown as proofs. For example, if you had an obvious regular strike 1907 $2.5 gold piece, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a proof, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the difference between a regular strike and proof 1907 $2.5 is obvious.
An obviously misidentified coin. For example, if you have a Hudson silver commemorative, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a Hawaiian silver commemorative, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as a Hudson is obviously not a Hawaiian.
A variety attribution that is obviously incorrect. For example, if you had a normal date 1942 Mercury dime, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a much rarer 1942/1 overdate, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as the date is obviously normal. Another example would be if you had a 1945 Mercury dime with an obviously normal size mint mark, but the PCGS holder showed the coin as a "Micro S." This coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee since the mint mark is obviously normal size.
A blatantly obvious clerical input mistake with respect to the actual grade of the coin. For example, if you had an 1893-O Morgan dollar and the PCGS holder showed the coin as MS65 (a Gem quality coin), but the coin was so beat up and marked up that it would grade MS60 at best, this coin would not be covered by the PCGS Guarantee as this would be an obvious input error. The rule of thumb here would be a difference of more than two points on the grading scale.
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To me, all those seem like a load of... junk.
So do you think PCGS would make this right? From their not-liable scenarios, it seems to me they will not. I will be calling them tomorrow.
Sorry, it's a little out of focus on the obverse on the coin. It does look a lot better.
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Edited by jdheyne - 11/01/2009 4:42 pm |
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jdheyne
Pillar Of The Community
USA
772 Posts |
Posted 11/01/2009 4:28 pm
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And as I meant to state, no matter whether it is PCGS, NGC, SGS or whoever, buy the coin, not the slab! Prime example right here...
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XavierOfGreen
Pillar Of The Community
USA
647 Posts |
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SuperDave
Moderator
USA
5118 Posts |
Posted 11/01/2009 4:34 pm
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Is there any possible recourse through the auction venue? Heritage, for instance, would almost certainly make something like this right in one fashion or another. I tend to agree with your lack of confidence in PCGS, though.
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jdheyne
Pillar Of The Community
USA
772 Posts |
Posted 11/01/2009 4:44 pm
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Pics added. I will try through the auction place if PCGS punks out (which I have a strong feeling they will). But I would prefer PCGS make this right, and take the coin off the market so this does not happen again and again.
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vermontensium
Pillar Of The Community
USA
3503 Posts |
Posted 11/01/2009 6:55 pm
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I hate to say this but I am starting to look more at NGC now that they have those very attractive slabs with the edge view. I have always preferred PCGS over NGC for one reason or another. Now, with all the Chinese crap entering the market, and none to my knowledge bieng counterfeited in fake NGC slabs, NGC is looking very attractive. I have also had only one mistake where PCGS put a 2004 coin in a 2001 holder. As for Heritage, there has to be a guarantee on their end.
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Bryan1315
Moderator
USA
6807 Posts |
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DNA
Pillar Of The Community
United States
945 Posts |
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bherring1964
Pillar Of The Community
USA
1447 Posts |
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Podoprigora
Valued Member
United States
378 Posts |
Posted 11/01/2009 11:22 pm
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i think I see a V.D.B in there but might just be me.
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tls867
Valued Member
United States
82 Posts |
Posted 11/02/2009 12:24 am
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I have a 1909 vdb and the initials are in the same spot as I think I see them on your penny. Yours are just more faded.
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tls867
Valued Member
United States
82 Posts |
Posted 11/02/2009 12:25 am
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But then too if they are so faded would it still be a VF20?
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spaceace
Valued Member
United States
64 Posts |
Posted 11/02/2009 01:18 am
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I don't kmow where it would grade, but it does look to have the initials ever so faintly on that reverse close-up pic.
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bherring1964
Pillar Of The Community
USA
1447 Posts |
Posted 11/02/2009 01:56 am
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From what I can see, VF20 looks like the appropriate grade and die markers may have identified it as a VDB.
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hippiebrian
Valued Member
United States
362 Posts |
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