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Bullion Pieces. Can anyone identify these?

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New Member

United States
37 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2011  8:29 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add John Galt to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Found another cache of silver. Mostly bullion. Some are easily recognized, "listed" bars and rounds. Then, there's a lot of other "unlisted" stuff. I've been selling a few "Silvermat" ingots that I found. Apparently, those have some kind of rarity or following. Folks have been paying $7 or more over spot prices for those one troy ounce ingots.

I'm wondering if some of these others are rare, possibly collectible. Or if they are just strange.

Oh, and for reference, all the pictures of the rounds are 1.75" square pictures. I'll post exact weights and diameters later.

Peace design/Big $ Silver Trade Unit



The back of this one reminds me of my cigarettes. ;) Just more text on it.

Date: ?
Edges: Reeded
Made/Minted by: ?
Orientation of images: Coin (flip vertical)

Morgan design/Balance Scales, Silver Trade Unit



Date: ?
Edges: Reeded
Made/Minted by: ?
Orientation of images: Coin (flip vertical)

St. Gaudens design by Silver Towne



Date: ?
Edges: Reeded
Made/Minted by: Silver Towne? Winchester Indiana?
Orientation of images: Medal (flip horizontal)

Indian Head/Buffalo



Date: ?
Edges: Reeded
Made/Minted by: ?
Orientation of images: Medal (flip horizontal)

Odd that both sides have a "©" symbol.

This is the best looking of these rounds. It has a very deep mirror finish to the fields, and a cameo proof look to it.

Bicentennial 'God Bless America' (Kennesaw Mint)


http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/...1976back.jpg
Date: 1976 (1776-1976)
Edges: Smooth
Made/Minted by: Kennesaw Mint, Kennesaw Georgia.
Orientation of images: Medal (flip horizontal), slightly misaligned

The General (Kennesaw Mint)



Date: 1981
Edges: Smooth
Made/Minted by: Kennesaw Mint, Kennesaw, Georgia.
Orientation of images: Medal (flip horizontal), misaligned about 30°

Statue of Liberty Head



Date: ?
Edges: Reeded
Made/Minted by: ?
Orientation of images: Coin (flip vertical)

Liberty (from Liberty Mint)



Date: ?
Edges: Reeded
Made/Minted by: Liberty Mint, Where?
Orientation of images: Medal (flip horizontal)

I like the text on the reverse of these from Liberty Mint. Very good choice for a silver piece.

USS Constitution (Liberty Mint)



Date: ?
Edges: Reeded
Made/Minted by: Liberty Mint, Where?
Orientation of images: Medal (flip horizontal)

Silver International Trade Unit (rectangular bar)



Date: ?
Edges: Reeded
Made/Minted by: ?
(Note image field is 2.5" x 1.5" for the pictures of this rectangular bar)

PS: If you try to collect one (or several) of everything, you're going to drive your children nuts when they inherit your collection.

Edited by John Galt
02/05/2011 8:32 pm
Pillar of the Community
Australia
8864 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2011  8:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Is there any guarantee as to their fineness? Could they be of a lower fineness than that stated on the product?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1418 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2011  8:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tumbleweedtrumpet to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Morgan looks mad.
New Member
United States
37 Posts
 Posted 02/05/2011  9:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Galt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
sel_69l wrote:
Quote:
Is there any guarantee as to their fineness? Could they be of a lower fineness than that stated on the product?

That's always a potential issue. You have to factor in the reputation (or lack thereof) of the producer.

Also, precise measurements for diameter, thickness, volume and weight help a lot. Silver has a known density (grams/cc) and fakes generally don't match that.

There's also the "silver ring" when you drop one on a tabletop. Although diameter and thickness can affect that a lot. Even small differences in thickness and diameter make the ringing sound much different.


tumbleweedtrumpet wrote:
Quote:
Morgan looks mad.

The "Peace" lady doesn't look so happy either.
Pillar of the Community
United States
754 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  09:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add oblakavshtanax to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
yeah I don't know how to tell you this jon, but they're all fakes.
New Member
United States
37 Posts
 Posted 02/07/2011  11:02 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Galt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
oblakavshtanax wrote:
Quote:
yeah I don't know how to tell you this jon, but they're all fakes.
What do you mean by "fakes"?

Honestly, two of them looked a little suspicious. All the rest look genuine, and they are the correct weight (31.1 grams +/- 0.1 gram) and volume is correct for that mass of silver. They also have the right "look" and a good silver "ring" when you drop them on a table.

One of the "suspicious looking" ones is also the correct weight and volume. If it's not pure silver, someone went to a whole lot of trouble (and this was back in the 1970's or 1980's when, with the exception of one big spike, silver prices were fairly low).

Even the one that is "off" a bit on the weight and volume is only slightly off (possibly somebody was using sterling or coin silver to make ".999 fine" silver rounds).

I had to order a new vial of silver testing solution. I'm waiting on that to get here before I call the two "suspicious" ones pure silver. But the other 8 I have full confidence in.
Valued Member
United States
465 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2011  12:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rh13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
WOW,,I am not a pro,,but I know about fake coins,,and you have a few I think,,
Valued Member
United States
465 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2011  01:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rh13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
These look good,,but look close,,,





Pillar of the Community
United States
5729 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2011  02:44 am  Show Profile Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some of the posts seem to reflect these being purported to be monetary coinage. They were not. They are just silver rounds and look fine to me. If they're marked 999 fine silver and weigh appropriately, no worries.
ANA #R3154474
New Member
United States
37 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2011  09:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Galt to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
rh13 wrote:
Quote:
WOW,,I am not a pro, ...
I see that. Enough said.

bherring1964 wrote:
Quote:
Some of the posts seem to reflect these being purported to be monetary coinage. They were not. They are just silver rounds and look fine to me. If they're marked 999 fine silver and weigh appropriately, no worries.
Yeah, some confusion there. I never said they were coins. I've checked the weight on most of them. They are all 31.1 grams +/- 0.2 grams except one. My scale resolution is 0.1 grams, so I can't get beyond that. I've seen known genuine ASE's come up 0.2 grams light or heavy, so that variation doesn't bother me much. Not every blank is exact. Variations of +/- 5% are common enough.

Do you also check volume? And how do you test that. One of the 31.1 gram pieces looks small for it's weight. It might be an optical illusion, but I'm curious. It does scratch bright silver on a piece of paper (not black or dark gray).
Pillar of the Community
United States
5729 Posts
 Posted 02/09/2011  10:54 pm  Show Profile Check BH1964's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add BH1964 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
John: The only pieces I ever verified for volume were raw gold coins. Pieces such as these do not need to be verified beyond weight; which should between 30.9g and 31.3g. unless they were damaged or used as a pocket piece.

The biggest thing is ensuring they are marked '999 Fine Silver' or something very similar to that.
ANA #R3154474
Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2011  7:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
There were "art bar" collectors before silver rounds became the standard. IIRC, there was an "error" bar in the general engines. We'd typically have 100-200 different rounds back when retail was $8-10. If there were $20 "rare" rounds, it's more likely they'd be $45-50 today than $80, but it depends on the collectors.

Limited issue high quality rounds, ie Disney characters might go for $50 and up back the, who knows today.
Valued Member
United States
358 Posts
 Posted 07/24/2011  9:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ICanSeeYou7687 to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
The. Buffalo and the gauden replicas look similar to some of the silver rounds from Silvertowne

http://www.silvertowne.com/listing....Daily&id=687
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