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Civil War Token - MI225CM

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rikcando
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Canada
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 Posted 02/08/2011  07:21 am Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

I can only find limited information on this token. I understand that it has a rarity rating of 9. Does any one have any more information, and would someone like like give a grade and/or value of this token.
Thanks to all.




Edited by rikcando
02/08/2011 07:22 am
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 Posted 02/08/2011  7:55 pm  Show Profile Check MINT_MARQ's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MINT_MARQ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Rikcando,

I saw it had a rarity rating of 9 the a civil war token website, but in my 1962 Fuld's guide it had a rarity rating of 6. I have heard of tokens becoming less rare because a hoard is found...but I have not heard of the reverse. So I am a little confused...wonder if the website made a mistake.

I would also say that from the picture the token looks quite corroded with what looks like verdigris, which will likely detract from it's value a bit.

My guess if it is a R-6 the value is probably $10-$24 on eBay. I like it though because it is from my home town.

Oh yeah By the way

William Wadkins Whitlark
agent for Grover & Baker Sewing Machine Company
Fisher's Block
MINT MARQ'S 7070 in progress...lots of holes and some upgrades needed.

MINT MARQ'S RED PAPER CLIP PHOTOS
Edited by MINT_MARQ
02/08/2011 7:58 pm
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Canada
285 Posts
 Posted 02/08/2011  8:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Mint Marq. I found it on two different sites as an R-9 but I can also create two more site before morning saying the same. If your book defines it to be R-6 I think it is probably more reliable.

As for the corrosion, there is probably more than you can see in the photo. Not the prettiest token I have ever seen. When I first looked at it I told my friend I was not interested at all for that reason. He pressed me to put a report together on it so I thought I'd put it up here in hopes of other opinions. So thank you for that.

Detroit hometown, eh. I can stand on my front porch and see Detroit, as I am in Windsor. I don't get over there very often any more since the tighening of the border. Those guards are quite a deterent from hopping over there for dinner.

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 Posted 02/09/2011  06:22 am  Show Profile Check MINT_MARQ's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MINT_MARQ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Not sure if you are aware of what the rarity levels mean in civil war tokens...but just in case you don't

A R-9 means there are 2 - 4 in existence.

A R-6 means there are 20-75 in existence.

You might want to wait and see if someone has a more up to date Fuld guide, because value will change dramatically if it is a R-9...like I said my guide is from 1962. We know for sure 2 exist...yours, the one that sold on Civil war tokens. If it ends up being a R-9 it could be closer to $100.00.

Windsor you say...I have not been over there for probably about 14 years...of course I was there often about 14 years ago when I wanted to escape the drinking laws of the United States... Aardvarks, The Electric Fish, Patrick O'Ryans....all were pretty nice places near the strip to wet your whistle back in the day.
MINT MARQ'S 7070 in progress...lots of holes and some upgrades needed.

MINT MARQ'S RED PAPER CLIP PHOTOS
Edited by MINT_MARQ
02/09/2011 08:12 am
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 Posted 02/10/2011  09:54 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Fuld lists 8 varieties of this Civil War Token in the 1975 storecard reference:

MI-225M-1a    (1039 reverse - 1863 Indian - copper - reeded edge)  R-7  (estimated 11-20 specimens)
      M-1a1   (1039    "    -   "     "   -    "   - plain   "  )  R-9  (    "      2-4      "    )
      M-2a    (1040    "    -   "     "   -    "   - reeded  "  )  R-9  (    "      2-4      "    )
      M-3a    (1042    "    -   "     "   -    "   -    "    "  )  R-6  (    "     21-75     "    )
      M-3b    (1042    "    -   "     "   -  brass -    "    "  )  R-8  (    "      5-10     "    )
      M-3i    (1042    "    -   "     "   -  zinc  -    "    "  )  R-9  (    "      2-4      "    )
      M-4a    (1047    "    - 1864    "   - copper -    "    "  )  R-9  (    "      2-4      "    )
      M-4d    (1047    "    -   "     "   -   CN   -    "    "  )  R-9  (    "      2-4      "    )


The 1962 Fuld storecard booklet did not list all the varieties (die/metal combinations, edge variations, etc.) for each merchant. With regard to the rarity ratings for each merchant, Fuld then gave the rarity for the most common variety; in this particular case, being R-6. As locality is a principal concern for most collectors of tokens, The Fulds initially sought in 1962 to provide a resource of availability for then known merchants in each town. Their 1970's volumes were far more detailed ... a tremendous effort! Naturally, there were errors made, but the bulk of what they set forth has withstood the test of time.

The subject token, MI-225-M, having a 1039 reverse die, comes with either a plain or a reeded edge. Which edge does this token have?

In terms of availability, the rarity of this token, be it R-9, R-7 or even R-1, is great in comparison to say a 1909-S VDB Lincoln cent. However, rarity doesn't necessarily mean big bucks, and demand will drive the value.

CWT collectors tend to be goal-oriented with regard to forming a collection. Unlike coin collectors, they have no album holes to plug. They often collect by state, town, subject matter (occupation, pictorials, etc.), die variety ... One of the more popular ways to collect CWT's is to assemble a representative set of merchants from a particular city (one variety issued by each merchant). The subject merchant evidences 8 varieties, ranging from R-6 to R-9. Using Fuld's estimates, there's a minimum of 47 specimens and a maximum of 125 specimens out there; making this merchant token relatively scarce but not impossible to attain. If this token was the only variety for this merchant and a legitimate R-9, the demand and concurrent value would be far greater.

It's not likely that the subject token would appeal to collectors who simply want a Michigan CWT for a state set; this, given its poor condition. The reverse die, 1039, is relatively common, having been used on many storecards in different states. The issuer's occupation, subject matter, is absent. It's copper planchet lacks the appeal of an off-metal. This said, the token certainly has appeal for a collector wanting to assemble a merchant set from Detroit. Certainly, some descendant would want a token issued by their ancestor! I'd humbly suggest that doing some research on the issuers (Googling) and attaching some history to the token would add to its desireability. It's a neat bit of history which can tell a story or two ...


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 Posted 02/10/2011  10:31 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
ExoGuy, per your request, I fixed your alignment.

If you want to used fixed spacing for tables like this, put [code] before the table and [/code] after it. This will force that intermediate text to render using a fixed-spacing font.
Jbuck! ... Coin Collector since 1978 ... Learn about my Avatar here!
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Canada
285 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2011  10:35 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you ever so much for such a detailed explanation. That does help me considerably. It is the first Civl War token that I have seen so I was not sure what to expect. I have two other in hand that I was asked to research so I might just post them here first. It sounds like a recent Fuld guide is a necessity if I plan on doing proper research.

Thanks again.

Oh yes, the edge shows no signs of reeds that I can see through the 2x2 window is reeded. I am not prepared to remove it yet as it currently still belongs to a friend.
Edited by rikcando
02/10/2011 11:16 am
Valued Member
Canada
285 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2011  11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
One other note.
The die orientation is about 90 degrees from obverse to reverse. Is this common for this type of token?
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 Posted 02/10/2011  7:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Hi rikando. Rotated dies are quite common on CWT's; this, as are other errors, like clipped dies, cuds, die clashes, etc. Indeed, there are some varieties of CWT's that are impossible to find without a particular error.

The 1970's Fuld storecard books aren't cheap. A good, used one will usually fetch over $50. There's a modern revision now in the works, and release of that will bring the prices of the old ones down, I expect. Even though many new varieties will be listed and older ones updated, the older storecard books will still be quite useful to average collectors. The Fulds really did a super job, and they were largely on the money when it came to listing the details for thousands of sorecards.

You might want to check out the Civil War Token Society website: http://www.cwtsociety.com/

This is the sesquicentennial year for the Civil War. Personally, I suspect that more collectors will be drawn to this area of collecting as the media sparks increased awareness. In general, CWT's appear to be way under-priced, considering that there are literally thousands of varieties for which ten or less specimens are known.
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 Posted 02/10/2011  7:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, jbuck, for doing the alignment. My post is now easier to follow. I'll try to remember that code tip next time!
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 Posted 02/10/2011  8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you again ExoGuy for the information. I'll have a look over the cwt society site to help familiarize myself better before I post the other two.
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 Posted 02/11/2011  10:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
In the 1867 Michigan State Gazetteer, a William W. Whitlark is listed as working under Joseph George & Company in a combination music and jewelry store; this, in St. Clair. More to the point, the 1866 Detroit City Directory lists "Whitlack, William W." as being an agent for Grover & Baker's sewing machines. Whitlark was then living at 18 Macomb Street. Thus, we now know the nature of the business that this Civil War token advertised. Another source, of which I could find but a snippet, lists Whitlark as a member of the Detroit Commandery #1 for the Knights Templar in 1869.

On another note, the dies for this token were made by the firm of John Stanton, James Murdock, Jr. and William W. Spencer. These diesinkers worked at 139 West Fifth Street in Cincinnati, during the Civil War. Stanton owned the business which then struck several thousand varieties of tokens for some 440 merchants in 12 states from Iowa to NY to Alabama. The Indian head dies, replicating those used on then circulating, copper-nickel cents were among the most frequently used dies by this firm. The information about this diesinkers can be found in the revised edition of "Patriotic Civil War Tokens" by George and Melvin Fuld.

Now, we have some history attached to this scarce Civil War token ....
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 Posted 02/11/2011  10:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
P.S. - The wording on this token's obverse, being "S.M. Co." now becomes clear. That's Sewing Machine Company!
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 Posted 02/11/2011  10:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ExoGuy to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I missed what Mint_Marq had noted in his edited comments! He had some info on Whitlack and the business. I'm gettin' old ... I do concur with his estimation of the token's worth, being $10-24. Yet, token values often come down to a roll of the dice.
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Canada
285 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2011  11:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rikcando to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Wow, that is alot more information than I expect. It is always nice to have the history behind a coin or token. It certainly seems that the civil War tokens each carry a story along with them. A lot more interesting than mordern coins, that is for sure. Thank you again for all of your effort.


I did go to the Civl Car Society site but there is limited information available to the unpaid visitor. I have not yet decided to obtain a subsciption, but you are making a rather strong case for such a small cost.
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 Posted 02/11/2011  11:43 am  Show Profile Check MINT_MARQ's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add MINT_MARQ to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I am still a rookie and only own 4 Civil War tokens so far...but I am always looking out for more

I always check back to the topics on CWT waiting for the real experienced collectors to chime in.

Great info EXO...

I would love to see what Bad Thad's VerdiCare could do for that mean green...
MINT MARQ'S 7070 in progress...lots of holes and some upgrades needed.

MINT MARQ'S RED PAPER CLIP PHOTOS
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