Coin Community Family of Web Sites
Coin Community Forum
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

Welcome Guest! Need help? Got a question? Inherit some coins?
Our coin forum is completely free! Register Now!
 All Forums
 US Coins and Currency Discussion Forums
 US Classic Variety and Error Coins

To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
 

Dateless Buffalo Doubling

Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
CaptainFwiffo
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3904 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2011  11:26 pm Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

This is just MD, right?

Valued Member
United States
184 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2011  11:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add sharpbfast to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
So I've been trying to learn this subject of DDO and MD. I would say as a learning student it is a MD. It has the step up appearance. HAHA hope the experts can agree.



Pillar Of The Community
United States
744 Posts
 Posted 07/18/2011  11:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Wild Bill to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I would say MD also....and I'm still learning myself....



Rest in Peace
United States
3039 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  09:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add numismo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Some restored Buffaloes have been shown to be 16/16. It's always good to bring out a date.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3904 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  09:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I just want to be sure it's not a known doubled-die before I use Nic-a-Date. If it can be positively identified as a particular date, it's better to not damage the surface. It doesn't LOOK like the '16 DDO, but I want to be sure.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2381 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  12:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Can you show a picture of the entire obverse? I'd like to see other areas of the coin before commenting. But there are dateless DDO 15 and 16 coins out there.

A few years back, I showed several pictures very much like yours to the forum here and most of the experts came in and said MD and not a DDO. However, one person said they could be the 16/16. So I submitted 2 of these to ANACS and sure enough they both got slabbed and confirmed as the elusive 16/16!

I have gone through 10s of thousands of Buffalo nickels and the doubled feather appearance is very rare. I have I think 9 from all of the coins I've searched. Two are 16/16, the other 7 do not have the die markers for 16/16 and so they are other dates. To me there is clear separation of the feathers in your coin above which argues against MD.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3904 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  12:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
See, that's why I didn't just jump ahead and Nic-a-Date it. The doubling is strong (no magnification needed to see it on the feathers) but it doesn't match the doubling on the 1916 DDO, which is why I assumed MD. I didn't know about the 1915.

Other elements on the obverse show doubling, like the front of the face and neck, but given the condition of the coin, it's hard to be sure of the nature of the doubling (could be die deterioration, or MD, or hub doubling).

I will post more pictures when I get home.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2381 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  1:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I think my 16/16s have doubling on the feathers, ribbon, face, chin/neck, forehead, but they are tucked away. I still have pics somewhere if you want to send me a PM I will email you my pics of my 16/16 for comparison.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3904 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  2:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
PM sent.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3904 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  2:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Ooops, found an old thread with your pictures. My coin very much looks like your second example (labeled 5), the doubling on the neck, in particular. It's surprising how different your two coins look, though die wear/polishing can significantly change the appearance of doubling. Grrrr, now I can't wait to get off work and do a closer comparison.

I still put myself in the skeptic camp, but it would be ironic if the rare variety I find is the one that wouldn't fill a hole in my book.
Edited by CaptainFwiffo
07/19/2011 2:25 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2381 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  2:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mycrob to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
My two 16/16 had different degrees of wear. I actually had a total of 9 but only sent 2 in for certification- the two I thought were most likely to be right based on die markers. My other 7 I don't know, but all 7 of my others have the strong feather doubling and some have die clashes and other interesting features. I've never seen a 15 DDO but heard it has doubling in feathers, so it's possible my others are the 15 DDO.
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3904 Posts
 Posted 07/19/2011  7:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some more pictures. I don't think it's a match for the 1916, but maybe it's the 1913 or 1915 DDO? There is notching in LIBERTY that looks very promising.



Notice the notching on the "L" and the blobby "B". But I think this is a better match for the weaker pre-1916 LIBERTY?




There is some clear die deterioration type doubling here, but there is a much harder to see second layer of doubling, which is more ambiguous.


I think I see doubling of the ribbons (the double is at a lower level, which is how it is with the 16/16, but it's not quite the same I don't think).
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3904 Posts
 Posted 07/20/2011  11:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add CaptainFwiffo to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
After some more examination and comparisons to various DDOs of the series, I concluded it was machine doubling. I was anxious to use Nic-a-Date because I thought this one was a candidate to be a 1915-S which I am still missing (the mint-mark area is worn). So... It turns out to be a 1916. But just a regular one, not the doubled die.
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
SELECTED Modern WORLD Coins with LOW Mintage$20 Pure Silver Coin - Candy Cane Proof with Murano GlassCoins Commemorating the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympic GamesSWCoins - We Love CoinsCoinSniper.com is the numismatic penny auction.
Coin Community Member eBay Sales - Only CCF Members Included Here
Ending Soon   Newly Listed   Lowest Price   Highest Price  
Certified Coins   Certified Vams   Certified Errors  
New Forum Topics Recently Active Forum Topics




Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Coin Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2014 Coin Community Family- all rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Coin Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Contact Us  |  Advertise Here  |  Privacy Policy / Terms of Use
Coin Community Forum © 2005 - 2014 Coin Community Forums Go To Top Of Page
It took 1.55 seconds to rattle this change. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05