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Pillar of the Community
 527 Posts |
Quote:
I read this the first time around and kind of thought the same thing. New or not, an 1804 dollar made of silver for 10 bucks...no way. Regardless, the info on this guy is good.
Dan, is this shop a few doors down from a Scuba shop? I did not pay attention if there is a Scuba shop. If I may ask, is it possible that you have been to this pawn shop before? This is the address to the Scuba shop you may be thinking of: 4365 Dale Blvd., Woodbridge, Virginia 22193 Quote:
Dan, I'm with you. My father bought a few fake 1804 dollars along with fake morgans, peace, and trades. This was before we knew about silver value or coins. It is what actually got us in to collecting. He bought them thinking, (old coins, nice, maybe worth something) Knew nothing about silver content or anything like that. Maybe that makes us dumb, but you live and learn.
Sorry if I'm rambling. I just wanted to saw, don't feel bad. We ALL make mistakes. I don't feel bad about it. I try to think positive because it could have been much worse. But I do appreciate your support, LTMets. I am sorry to hear about your father getting ripped off many years ago from scammers who are more concerned about making a quick buck than being honest and trying to give the best service to their customers as possible. Also, if it's any way that makes you guys think better, I have yet to buy a Morgan or Peace dollar because I do know for a fact that fakes exist of those; I never knew an 1804 fake existed. From now on, I only buy silver from reputable places such as Pawn USA (which is the shop that I got the 24 Washington quarters from today). Edited by TheDanMan
12/29/2011 11:54 pm
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Valued Member
United States
333 Posts |
There may be a coin shop or show in your area that you might want to visit. Pawn shops are hit or miss regarding numismatics.
With respect to the original story, I don't really feel sorry for you as it was only $10, but I can share in your anger that the pawn shop knowingly sells fakes to unsuspecting buyers. That sort of thing does hurt the hobby, too good to be true or not.
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Valued Member
United States
239 Posts |
You learn from your mistakes.. It just sucks that there are people like that in this world that pray on others disadvantages to make a dollar. I don't know how you could sleep at night knowing you ripped off potentially thousands of people.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts |
Too bad you tossed it as you had a great story to tell and then network with other collectors on CCF and locally. There's tremendous profit in these Chinese counterfeits. At one flea market, I saw similar "coin" items selling for fifty cents, apiece. Actually, that 1804 probably would not be legally classified as a counterfeit, even if it lacked the COPY stamp. I say this because there was likely no denomination given on the piece you bought. Genuine Bust Dollars show the denomination on the edge, and the 1804 copies that I've seen lacked that lettering, "One Hundred Cents or a Dollar." Some years ago, I was able to save two separate ebay buyers from making purchases for over $1,000, each on such copies, dated 1799 and 1800. I contacted them and suggested that they ask the seller what was on the edge of each "coin." His failure to reply was telling, and the top bidders were quite thankful. I agree with Dan that most of us have encountered and bought unfamiliar numismatic items. When doing so, it's best to expect the downside of the item being a repro. Then, if it turns out to be genuine, what a treat! |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10635 Posts |
Am I the only one here that thinks you should (still even after the fact) contact the police to let them know this guy is knowingly defaulting people? Selling counterfeits is still a crime.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
Dan, I bought a nice 55 quarter from a pawn shop in that area a few doors down from a scuba shop. Given the addresses I would say its not the same place. If I get a chance I will check out the place you are talking about. Be interesting to see what he says to me. I know I got into it with the owner of the place I went into because he was really trying to gouge using PCGS prices as a guide.
I check pawn shops, but generally not the place to get coins.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts |
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Am I the only one here that thinks you should (still even after the fact) contact the police to let them know this guy is knowingly defaulting people? Selling counterfeits is still a crime. Hi Merclover ... These 1804's aren't likely counterfeits. Kindly refer to my prior post. They're what's referred to as "novelty items." It's only fraud if the seller represents the items to be something they're not. Logically, how can a buyer expect to purchase an 1804 "silver" dollar for $10 at a time when 1921 Morgans are selling for about $20, each? Dan didn't say that his so-called "coin" was labeled in any way ... Was it, Dan? While I'm no fan of these novelty items, mind you, they do serve something of a purpose. They arouse the curiosity of potential collectors who may afterwards delve more deeply into numismatics. Considering the cost of most popular magazines nowadays, a $10 impulse buy for a mock 1804 "dollar" doesn't seem all that bad; this, IMHO. Such a novelty item can open doors to learning, hobby discussion and provide a lifelong keepsake with a telling story attached. On a side note, I recently bought a 1913 Liberty Head nickel from a reputable dealer. It's an altered date 1903 and was marked as such. It's a fun coin to show when a friend asks if I've found any new additions to my collection. Also, it's an educational tool for fellow collectors. The same can be said about the mock 1804's. |
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Pillar of the Community
527 Posts |
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Logically, how can a buyer expect to purchase an 1804 "silver" dollar for $10 at a time when 1921 Morgans are selling for about $20, each? Dan didn't say that his so-called "coin" was labeled in any way ... Was it, Dan? Now that you bring it up, the coin was not marked as a dollar, let alone a silver dollar. Quote:
It's only fraud if the seller represents the items to be something they're not. That is exactly my point; he had his "silver dollar" placed with the other Morgan and Peace dollars that he had. That tells me he is trying to pass these off as genuine; remember, he blatanly lied to me about his product. How is that not knowingly selling counterfeits? And I would not be surprised if some or all of his Morgan and Peace dollars are fakes. Edited by TheDanMan
01/01/2012 10:12 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4421 Posts |
Hi Dan .... I read your initial quote as follows: "The guy who sold it to me flat out admitted that he doesn't know if it's real silver or not and that is why he priced it at $10. He said that if he knew if it was real, he'd sell it for a lot more. I took a chance and bought it." Is that not what you first wrote on Sept 17? I'm confused. That doesn't sound like an outright fraud; this, especially as the item wasn't labeled.
Understand that I'm not defending the seller's sales tactics, just trying to comprehend how the deal went down. Folks who read this thread can then possibly benefit should they find themselves in similar situations.
A year or so ago, I was visiting a coin booth in a flea market. The older dealer and I were in the midst of a conversation when a fellow approached him with a book of thirty or so silver dollars, Morgan and Peace. There was an 1889-CC in XF, but most of the coins were common. Had the 1889-CC been genuine, the deal would've been worth the seller's asking price of $1,500. Also, some of the other "coins" were Chinese counterfeits. It's not uncommon for crooks to mix the counterfeits with genuine coins. This brings me to my next point, Dan.
Were all the "coins" with the 1804 the same price, $10? It's possible that the seller thought there could be some silver in that 1804. I've known many a coin dealer who's been fooled by counterfeits at some time or another. Most pawn brokers and auctioneers whom I've met in the past forty years know relatively little about coins, tokens, paper and the like.
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Pillar of the Community
527 Posts |
Quote:
Hi Dan .... I read your initial quote as follows: "The guy who sold it to me flat out admitted that he doesn't know if it's real silver or not and that is why he priced it at $10. He said that if he knew if it was real, he'd sell it for a lot more. I took a chance and bought it." Is that not what you first wrote on Sept 17? I'm confused. That doesn't sound like an outright fraud; this, especially as the item wasn't labeled.
Understand that I'm not defending the seller's sales tactics, just trying to comprehend how the deal went down. Folks who read this thread can then possibly benefit should they find themselves in similar situations.
A year or so ago, I was visiting a coin booth in a flea market. The older dealer and I were in the midst of a conversation when a fellow approached him with a book of thirty or so silver dollars, Morgan and Peace. There was an 1889-CC in XF, but most of the coins were common. Had the 1889-CC been genuine, the deal would've been worth the seller's asking price of $1,500. Also, some of the other "coins" were Chinese counterfeits. It's not uncommon for crooks to mix the counterfeits with genuine coins. This brings me to my next point, Dan.
Were all the "coins" with the 1804 the same price, $10? It's possible that the seller thought there could be some silver in that 1804. I've known many a coin dealer who's been fooled by counterfeits at some time or another. Most pawn brokers and auctioneers whom I've met in the past forty years know relatively little about coins, tokens, paper and the like. I don't know if the rest of the coins were also $10. I never asked this back on September 17, nor did I ask it the second time because of how dismissive he was towards me. Considering how he blunt he was towards me a few days ago, it should give people an idea of how he is. For example, if this had happened at Pawn USA (the pawn shop in Woodbridge, VA that people who are looking for junk silver coins should go to), I might believe that some counterfeits may have accidentally got somehow mixed in. Let's compare to what a good dealer would say vs. a bad dealer if somebody showed them an 1857 Flying Eagle cent in any kind of condition: Good dealer: Me - I'm trying to sell my 1857 Flying Eagle cent. What do you think I can get for this? Dealer - Hmmmm (looking at it). I haven't seen this before. Tell you what: Let me look this up and I'll see what I can do. Bad dealer: Me - I'm trying to sell my 1857 Flying Eagle cent. What do you think I can get for this? Dealer - (after looking at it for literally one second) "Nothing" Me - Why not? Dealer - I don't want it. I know this part of the story might be irrelevant, but it should serve as an example of what kind of guy he is. Speaking to people in a rude manner and selling fake money should tell you that a guy like that has no morals and doesn't care about anybody but himself. I do not judge you, or anybody else, in a negative manner if you believe what he did was an honest mistake. I am trying to explain to other people that I believe dealers like this are dishonest, fraudulent, and should be locked up. There is one last thing I neglected to mention. I did not tell him that I had bought the fake coin from him three months prior. He may or may not remember me but I was so disgusted with him, I felt it would have been an absolute waste of time to even try to argue with him, plus in September he said that he didn't know if it was silver, yet three months later, he knew that they were fake. Yeah that's a clear sign of dishonesty. Edited by TheDanMan
01/02/2012 5:00 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1610 Posts |
 If he sells it clearly stating having no knowledge of it's authenticity and then you try to sell him the same piece back and him announcing it's fake is clearly a sign of fraud. And even if he had acquired the knowledge of it being fake, he wouldn't still be selling that lot of fakes (unless he clearly marked them as fakes). Call the police, get rid of that snake. |
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Locked
822 Posts |
Selling a counterfeit is illegal whether you know its a counterfeit or not. The only question is whether or not fraud is added to the charges. Call the cops on him.
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Pillar of the Community
527 Posts |
I do not have my original receipt or the coin that I bought from him anymore. I have a feeling that calling the cops won't work well against my favor since I don't have the evidence.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1610 Posts |
Darn ):
Let's just hope another guy sees what he's doing and tells the police with evidence.
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Locked
822 Posts |
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I have a feeling that calling the cops won't work well against my favor since I don't have the evidence. Plenty of evidence... Quote:
I looked in his glass case and he had a few more of those 1804 dollar coins! All the cops have to do is send a detective in to buy one (detectives love this kinda stuff), his ignorance plea is irrelevant. |
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Replies: 24 / Views: 10,222 |
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Posted 12/30/2011 01:08 am
