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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
I looked but could not find the claimed ebay listing either as a finished auction or one removed by ebay. I would say both the coin and the slab are fake. Ike's facial expression does not appear right and the eye definitely looks wrong. |
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New Member
United States
38 Posts |
I agree the eye looks off, could just be the picture. Kinda sad seeing I've been buying some slabbed ikes lately
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
Auction Appearances of This Coin
Date Price Firm Sale Notes
9/11/2009 $3,738.00 Heritage 2009
September Long Beach, CA
Signature US Coin Auction #1129
4/1/2008 $6,325.00 Heritage CSNS08
6/24/2007 $5,600.00 Teletrade Auction 2385 Keep the bolded numbers in mind when you think about investing in rare coins. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
the thing about these fake slabs is they caught on pretty quickly and now use legit certification numbers from past sales on Heritage, Teletrade and other auction houses. Once they have a fake coin and the fake slabs they go looking for legit certification numbers on these auction house sites and they copy the legit cert number and place that on the fake label so when you go to look up the certification number it looks like its legit, which the cert is real and a coin was graded at that same grade, but not the coin and slab you are looking at. You can go to Heritage and look at the original images and see if they match up but other than that you have to know how to spot these fake slabs before you purchase these coins This is the original on Heritage http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleN...9&lotNo=1213And this is the pictures from Heritage, with the one above beside it    |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
Buying coins and holding them with the expectation of profit is highly risky, even rare coins with a great history have volatile swings in price. I am currently writing a reference work on registry set collecting, and I advise most collectors to leave the top tier alone unless a) they are absolutely committed to have the best coins and understand what makes these coins the best of their class and b) that they understand that they may be buying the coin at the top of the market.
I'm not going to speak to PCGS grading of Eisenhower proofs. They are certainly NOT loose when it comes to handing out Proof 70s in this series. That said, every Proof 70 that is certified must find a buyer and the total number of buyers interested in this series that are willing to pay heavy multiples of what a Proof 69 would cost are few, so each additional one that is revealed creeps lower and lower into the mainstream tier of collector who may be willing to spend hundreds, but not thousands for a coin they like.
I have it on good authority, that at the FUN show an individual was walking the bourse floor with a fake MS-70 Ike. Don't know what happened to that person, but needless to say, they probably didn't find a sucker to buy the coin off of them.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
MS70 is just another sucker game. Take ten cheap MS70 coins and send them to the same TPG and you won't get them to give you ten MS70 grades. So if the only way a coin is worth the big bucks is sealed in a holder, you're really collecting plastic cases, not coins. |
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Valued Member
United States
197 Posts |
I may be new at this, but already I don't care much for slabbed coins, even though I own several. I like being able to hold an actual coin, not a case, in my hand. I like coins, not plastic cases, and it seems to me that considerations of a coin's monetary value can morph into considerations of a grading service's monetary value. The grading business strikes me, on an intuitive level, as being ripe for corruption and fraud. Grading of coins leads to grading of grading services, even if informally. What's next, certification of certifiers? I prefer to let the free market determine a coin's quality, but as I said, I'm just a new guy.
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
Good point Fred. I noticed that also when looking at the auction history. Someone took a hit.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
@Fred,
I understand what you are saying, but I can tell you,
I've held in my hand an MS-68 Silver Ike Business Strike, an MS-68+ Ike Business Strike, and an MS-69 Silver Ike Business Strike. It was obvious to me the differences.
Is that difference worth thousands of dollars? That's a personal decision. Again that price is the result of demand. If there is one or two coins that are that nice and there are a couple guys who have to have it- the hammer price will be through the roof.
This is where it is fundamentally important to know what it is you are looking at and what it is you want out of your collection.
Is an MS-70 Modern Commemorative a rare coin? Uncommon, yes... rare, no. Would an MS-70 Ike (or an MS-69, for that matter) be a rare coin, absolutely.
Did the owner of that Proof care that he took a hit because the price fell? Who knows. If the series picks up more popularity, and it will with time, he could recover his losses, if he even cares about that.
People who collect coins just to look at the bottom line may be in the wrong hobby... rare coin values do not always go up.
Edited by cc99999
01/13/2012 08:38 am
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New Member
United States
38 Posts |
After looking at the pics Bryan posted, you can tell the differences in the cert number being off center over the bar code. The last number 2 is not centered the same in both. I guess thats the only real difference I can see.
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
What's next, certification of certifiers? Not "next", already. CAC Jellybeans and Rick Snow and EAC. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:Just one more sign that PCGS needs to drop this label design and do everything Secure +, that is if they aren't infringing on the copyright of this individual who is suing them and NGC: http://www.scribd.com/doc/63695728/..ervice-et-al I'm still wading through that "hardly" brief/ Sounds like he thinks he invented the + sign. Why not call it 65.5 if it's better than 65, but not 66? They didn't seem to mind creating 61, 62, 64, 66, etc. |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
I've held in my hand an MS-68 Silver Ike Business Strike, an MS-68+ Ike Business Strike, and an MS-69 Silver Ike Business Strike. It was obvious to me the differences. I'm not arguing with your observation. If they were sent back "raw", do you honestly feel they'd get the same grades? If not, don't you feel a little silly to pay $100+ to have someone tell you "A is nicer than B, which is nicer than C"? Or maybe they don't even rank them the same, in which case you should feel a big silly. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1302 Posts |
having seen literally thousands of Ike dollars, I'd say the differences between an MS-67, MS-68, and an MS-69 are pretty plain to see. I couldn't do this for every series. I think the grading companies are loose with the grades when the coins are not valuable... but the person willing to pay $3500 for a PR70 ike is has either bought into the marketing or should be able to tell the difference. As for my collecting tastes? for silver: MS-68 72-76s are what I went for, MS-67 the 71. For the clads, as good as I could pull myself from rolls and mint sets, and an MS-63 72 Type II that I bought from a top tier collector. that's just my taste, it's not the right approach for anybody but myself. And as for Proofs? I don't see a reason to get anything over 69, especially since there is a wide range of what got holdered in 69. I prefer frosty early die state Proofs and I always look to upgrade them when possible. |
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Replies: 25 / Views: 4,742 |
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Posted 01/12/2012 6:59 pm
