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"Wood Outgassing" - What Should I Know?

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Pillar of the Community
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3640 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2012  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Indian1 to your friends list
I would use Cedar for the chest.
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United States
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 Posted 02/27/2012  10:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ContraJame to your friends list
Good points, indeed. I'd never store an uncleaned gun. Surely no one does such a thing? And I plan on keeping the coins in the two drawers down below.

Since this thing will be created from scratch I can throw pretty much any design change his way and he won't argue. My plan is to sketch the entire thing out so he has a general idea on the design and dimensions. I'm sure he'll make changes seeing as I'm not versed in wood working. If you were to change things up on the chest design what would you do, Carl? Add legs to move it up off the floor? Have him seal everything? Only seal what is exposed and add a dehumidifier/silica pad to absorb the moisture? There's pleanty for me to research but I'm curious. There's nothing better than good advice from experienced people.
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 Posted 02/27/2012  10:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mysilveryears to your friends list
I'm a woodworker and I would never recommend cedar for storage of metallic items. This wood is well known for the strong odors it releases over long periods of time. It's great for repelling insects but odor release = damage to metals. Probably the safest wood that is easy to obtain and work with is poplar. Maple is good but much harder to fabricate. Oak, cherry, walnut all contain substances that will seriously stain silver (and other raw metals) as noted above. Virtually all evergreens (pine, spruce, fir etc) will release volatile substances that could harm coins. You might consider building the cabinet of wood, then using separate polypropylene containers for the coins.
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 Posted 02/27/2012  10:52 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jgfindring to your friends list
Also, when fabric covering the inside of drawers with fabric (I use a velour type fabric) be careful of your adhesive, as that is as or more dangerous than wood finishes regarding fumes. I have had good luck with 3M Super 77 spray adhesive.
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United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2012  10:55 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list
Gerstner tool boxes are made of wood and I have never heard any complaints from tool makers who use these.
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United States
187 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2012  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add RMAN4443 to your friends list

Quote:

Gerstner tool boxes are made of wood and I have never heard any complaints from tool makers who use these.


I agree on the quality of Gerstner as I am a machinist who owns one,but the Gerstner is made of oak and is meant to hold hand tools which come into contact with oils and chemicals.These tools are not damaged by long term exposure to heat,humidity and moisture,all of which would do great damage to a valued coin collection.
My opinion only,but I would not use oak,or any of the aromatic or oily woods.And remember they use cedar in cigar humidors to attract and help contain humidity.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2012  6:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list

Quote:
I would use Cedar for the chest.

I was beaten with an answer to that. Note that Cedar is used for moth repellant since it emits gasses for long periods of time. Cedar blocks and hangers are used for clothing places since it keeps away most insects.
If you think about it any wood that you can smell must be giving off some kind of vapors that create that smell.
As to keeping it off the floor flat, legs would help dissapate moisture with increased evaporation due to air movements. Whoever is making this should be instructed to seal everything including the bottom and rears. As I mentioned though, many wood people will tell you that some sealants tend to get sticky in warm areas which is one reason for not sealing the parts of a drawer that must slide. Many of the more expensive furnature makers, such as Thomasville, tend to place metal sliding systems in for the drawers. This makes the drawers always slide and then all sides of a drawer can be sealed.
Any type of moisture absorbing material is great except most people tend to forget that they do not absorb moisture forever. Eventually they get what could be called full. Then they may as well be a lump of clay. Only use them if you know you can remember to change them.
One little suggestion is if it were me, I'd have a sort of left out tray or something for the top section. It appears to be excessively deep for no reason. Possibly a half shelf on one side for small firearms and leaving enough room for rifles and/or shotguns to slid into place. Such a shelf would leave all drawers free for coins. Or have more drawers for coins. Or make those present drawers deep enough for a left out tray so you could put in more coins.
Another idea is to check with coin dealers as to where they get those trays they use at coin shows that have places for individual 2x2's.
Hope I'm not boring everyone, as usual.
OOPps. Had to edit this to add one more thing. As to a lock on that cabinet. Great if you have kids around but don't bother with a large horrible one since anything wood is easily opened with a crow bar.
Edited by just carl
02/27/2012 6:32 pm
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7075 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2012  6:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list
I'm not a cabinetmaker -- although my husband has made about half of our furniture...still...well, it's just a thought. The bottom drawers could hold air-tight containers. I keep my coins in those little fire-proof lock boxes that you can find at office supply stores. They are not safes but I figure they do offer some protection from humidity.

Have you checked with any archivists to see what they recommend or use? There are entire sites devoted to archival supplies so maybe you could get some information -- especially about drawer liners, there.
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 Posted 02/27/2012  6:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add erkle to your friends list
line the inside of the coin area with stainless steel sheet, also have a hidden drawer or compartment to put the extra specials in.
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292 Posts
 Posted 02/27/2012  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ContraJame to your friends list
My father will be making it. Here's his website for reference: http://www.t-gwoodproducts.com/id1.html I doubt he'll have a problem sealing up the whole thing. I'm not paying for it though so we'll see. xD I could likely buy the hardware required and provide it to him (drawer sliders, hinges, locking assembly, etc.).

I think this horizontal chest will be more functional than one of the sheet metal safes in my situation. It will blend in as furniture and provide essentially the same amount of "safety". I'd like to have it in three tiers. The middle tier will have the gun rack. The top tier will cover the guns with removable trays that will hold odds and ends, be it blankets to be extra tricky or ammo and whatnot. The drawers will house my coin collection. I'm going to try to come up with a concealed locking mechanism so that it's not obvious that I have it locked up. It won't be a heavy duty lock, but it will hold it tight to make it appear as if it's a big heavy coffee table with nothing in it. I don't have kids and I live in a very safe area so really it's for peace of mind more than anything.

If I end up putting this thing against a wall/bed it would be cool to have a pocket built into the back side of the chest where the drawers are with a piece of wood to conceal it. Then when I'm rich and famous I could hide my MS68 Peace dollars in the back for ultimate security and not have to mess with things like safety deposit boxes! :D
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2012  10:46 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
Now here is an interesting thought. Have that made a lot thinner, higher legs and make the top sort of a marbly or waterproof type of material. Now you have a coffee table with a concealed gun compartment. Next have two smaller and similar ones made for end tables only now with concealed drawers for coins.
You now have custom made furniture suitable for a living room.
You now have a safe place for guns that is almost a no look for by thieves.
You now have no problems with guns and coins in the same cabinet.
You now have a much larger area for coins and the ability to sort as you like.
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 Posted 02/28/2012  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
I think you have a great idea. I also think your coins will be okay if you put them in separate, sealed containers (with some desiccants) and then put those containers in the drawers.
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292 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2012  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ContraJame to your friends list
Hang on...adding the word desiccate to my vocabulary.

@just_carl: I like the way you think. In ten years when the technology becomes more mainstream I'll take your idea to the next level. Sometimes we have projects that use "smart glass" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smart_glass). Right now it's mostly electrochromic - apply a burst of electricity to switch from clear to opaque glass. When you're home you have a coffee table display case. When you leave the house just flip a switch and everything becomes hidden behind the colored glass.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
20753 Posts
 Posted 02/28/2012  9:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add just carl to your friends list
Starting to sound like a buisness venture of gun/coin cabinets/coffee tables/end tables, etc.
What I think I like about all this is you don't have to have a safe, a safe that invites crime, a secret wall that opens, etc. Just something right in plain sight.
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United States
9104 Posts
 Posted 03/08/2012  1:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add biggfredd to your friends list

Quote:
As to a lock on that cabinet. Great if you have kids around but don't bother with a large horrible one since anything wood is easily opened with a crow bar.

If security is secondary to just keeping kids out, use a pin lock. Drill all drawers from top to bottom, drop a long metal rod through the holes. Nothing pulls out until you pull the rod straight up.
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