The Ultra Rare *1963-CC* Seated Liberty Dollar!

He does, but anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that when you use 400 tons of pressure to strike a coin it doesn't matter what you use. It's not an altered coin, it's brand new coin. I mean by this asinine logic you could use a "flisbin" then claim it's nothing but an altered "flisbin." Duh. If Ford scraps an F150 and uses the metal to make an Edge what is it? An Edge or an altered F150? Again... Duh.

I can't wait for the day a 1964 Peace dollar surfaces like the 74 aluminum cent did. Then they will all instantly be counterfeits right?

I mean seriously, anyone that really thinks out of over 300,000 of these none left the mint needs a reality check. They were only weighed, not inspected. If you had the chance you wouldn't have snagged one and thrown your Zippo in the hopper?

Well, keep in mind....80 years prior, in the 1880's, the Mint had the ability to weigh 6000 ounces with an accuracy of just over 1% of a single Morgan Dollar - 5 grains. I would imagine that by 1964, their ability to resolve weight might have improved in the meantime. So, you'd obviously need to have a slug of the precise weight of the coin you're taking already handy.

Not that it's impossible. But, especially given the skill of people like Daniel Carr, I'd contend that even if some real ones made it out of the Mint, the background noise of current quality counterfeiting would make it impossible to be 100% sure such a coin was real.

The 1964 Peace dollar is effectively dead for all time.

Y'know, I've always considered it a refuge of the weak and needlessly-argumentative to resort to differences about semantics. A rock is still a rock even if your preference is to call it a feather.

Ok cool. So then if one was made from a new planchet, and one was made from another Peace dollar straight up, you could tell the difference right? If the original is 100% obliterated, there's nothing altered about it, it's a new item.

Why is the resulting object a coin instead of an altered planchet? I'll tell you why..

When you strike a planchet with 19XX dollar dies with 400 tons of pressure, it ceases being a planchet and becomes a 19XX dollar.

Just like when you strike a 19XX dollar with 19YY dollar dies with 400 tons of pressure it ceases being a 19XX dollar and becomes a 19YY dollar.

It's not rocket science for crying out loud.

The Ford-crushing analogy doesn't work because a Ford is an infinitely more complex object with internal structure. If you had a car where it could be a "completely different car" by merely swapping its bumper or a rear view mirror, then it might be more appropriate metaphor. The whole coin isn't being "obliterated."

Case and point, if you pull a Peace dollar from a bag and notice that it's date has been damaged by the other coins into obscurity, it's still a Peace dollar. If instead you have a Peace dollar that was hit with a hammer carelessly in such a way that obscures the date, it's still a Peace dollar. The same way that carving away at the date with a dremmel on purpose to make it look like another date leaves it a Peace dollar as well.

This is why the issue of counterfeiting is a matter of criminal intent, because dealing with the physical process of altering a genuine coin becomes a case of guessing at how many grains of sand a mound becomes a hill. It simply cannot be defined without some arbitrary designation and the laws are written to avoid doing that (as arbitrary designations on such slopes tend to cause ridiculous examples in case law).

This is also why PO1 Peace dollars are still Peace dollars. If it even worse, i.e. unrecognizable, then people scratch their chin and wonder what it used to be. :-)

So if I take a Rolls-Royce kit and redo my bugwagon, it's now a Rolls? Cool!

How about all the overstruck forn coins in Krause? Or overprinted stamps and currency?

I apologize to all involved. I lost my original point and for that I am sorry. I only intended to lend support for the opinion that Carr's pieces are altered coins.

Enough. I'm getting bored with this.