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 Replies: 31 / Views: 9,662 |
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Previously Banned Member
 66 Posts |
Petersun: You are correct... This is the rarest circulation coin in Canada...this is a fact!! And the most recognized Canadian coin in the world with the 1911 dollar and 1936 dot 1 cent and 10 cent coins. There have been periods where in Canada a mint state 1921 50 cent has not shown up for sale...the 1911 1$ was last sold in 2003 so yes these coins are VERY rare!! Read this Torex article and you will see for yourself that I am saying the truth that some times there has been a 10 year period without a mint state coming up for sale in Canada: http://www.canadiancoin.com/coin_ar...+at+Torex%AEEdited by 1921
08/18/2012 6:59 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
632 Posts |
No discussion about the rarity. But your original question is: is it a good investment?
In other words, if someone buys one for let's say 250k (I am cheap) what will be his/her profit in 5y? How will it fare against inflation and the other possible investments?mill the investor make money or lose money?
THAT is your question, not a statement of rarity or accuracy of population reports.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1700 Posts |
There are two systems to answer this question
First:
Definately not a good investment.
In this direction of view, this item is not an investment, only a highly collectible.
The number of this coin will remain for a long time unless a natual disaster destroys any of them.
Rarity remains the same.
Price would remain the same.
Second:
Maybe a very good investment
It is very difficult to find a coin like this in the market. One of these comes up once in a decade. Therefore, you could ALWAYS auction a coin like this at a higher price (than your buying price) due to the desire, not the rarity.
Thank you for reading
Petersun
Edited by Petersun
08/18/2012 7:30 pm
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Previously Banned Member
66 Posts |
t_y:
curious if you could tell me why then based on accumulated data since 1964 this coin has a return rate of 7,5% per year? It was 8000$ in 1964 and now the same coin is about 250k-300k. This is based on Charlton's price guides only. To me 7,5% a year is not to shabby!! Most banks don't even offer this return rate. I can only think of rare comic books having a better return rate than rare key date coins like the 1921 half. This is NOT a loss against inflation rates at all.
I am not trying to be hard but facts are facts are they not!!
Edited by 1921
08/18/2012 7:40 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts |
Many coins, paintings, pieces of real estate and other tangible assets have had extraordinary increases in value over the same time frame. While this looks great on paper, it is much less impressive than the gains on some US rarities, I would guess, and on many pieces of art for sure.
From my point of view, the 1921 coin presents a few problems. Like all coins and many other assets, buying and selling involves commissions and taxes that may add up to 40% or 50% of the selling price, which may negate the entire profit (or more) over any reasonable holding period.
The second problem is that, while it is rare, it is still common compared to many world rarities. If I were looking for an investment coin, I would pick a very very scarce coin (population of 5 or less) from a place with favourable demographics (China, Malaysia, Singapore, Hong Kong).
Also, the 1921 is already a recognized rarity. 50 years ago it was obviosuly rare but it was not valued by the market "on a pedstal". You want to buy the thing that is not "on a pedestal" in the market today but might be in ten years.......
If I wanted an investment coin, I would look for womething that is either liquid and easily sold without a big cost or is very very special. The 1921 is a scarce coin, but in the grand scheme of rare assets, it is just not that special I would say.
Edited by Smallcentguy
08/18/2012 7:48 pm
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Previously Banned Member
66 Posts |
Smallcentguy:
I agree there are better things to invest in...but every time a Canadian coin is talked about there always seems to be something not OK with it that is the attitude Canadian collectors have towards there rare coins. The thing is you say to buy a world rarity like say a 1804 U.S dollar or a 1913 liberty head nickel that will run you close to 4-5 million dollars. Most people in the world do not have that kind of money but a lot more can afford a mint state 1921 50 cent. Paintings will cost you so many millions as well. Your chance as a smaller collector who wants to get into the good level stuff leaves you open to a 21 half. Action comics # 1 (1st Superman) now is 2.2$ million dollars in near mint and a detective comics # 27 (1st Batman) will run you about 2$ million in near mint. One day people will look to Canada and they will say son of a gun look here a world rarity for less than 500k in TOP GRADE. By the way you pay capital gains taxes on every thing you sell almost...except your primary home. Houses do make money but they can crash fast compared to a solid coin. Also one can invest in multiple things and that could include a 21 half to have a diversified portfolio.
It is way more likely that someone could own a house and a 21 half than say a few houses and some fine art worth millions of dollars. This could also be said for other rare Canadian coin at the very top of the market.
Plus when one bids on rare art you often bid against people from royal families/movie actors so good luck wining a nice painting.
Edited by 1921
08/18/2012 9:05 pm
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Valued Member
291 Posts |
I voted yes because I believe that, in general, key date coins tend to appreciate in value more than their more common brethren. Of course, I don't have a crystal ball, so your guess is as good as mine.  |
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Previously Banned Member
66 Posts |
Senex:
People in the U.S I have heard are having a very hard time locating key pieces on the market in the last 2 years (sources at Heritage auctions and various big players at the long beach coin conventions I know)...It was rumored that some big players are looking up north for some rare coins to add to there collections...to me this can and will change everything some time ''soon''. U.S people need to find new material to expand there investment needs and major key dates are always wanted...this does also include places like say China, England...and so on.
In the U.S high end collectors tend to buy the rarest coins and keep them in there family for generations...this will for sure one day push other new top end collectors to look at other options in various coin fields that could also include rare coins like the 21 half here in Canada.
Edited by 1921
08/18/2012 9:11 pm
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Moderator
 Canada
10458 Posts |
Why did you bother to solicit opinions here, when your own opinion is already solidified. I bought gold when it was $250 an ounce, which has outperformed any numismatic item in recent years, I have had real estate triple since 1999. 7.5% annually is crap, when you can outperform that by an order of magnitude, if you really do your research and invest wisely.
Most collectors I know, who have had the 1921 50-cent, bought it as a numismatic purchase, not an investment. The exception would be a person in Ottawa/Hull, who tried to play that card with a 1936 dot 10-cent, then traded for a 1921 50-cent instead (in MS-65 grade from ICCS). This person then tried to do what you are doing, but instead of accepting differing points of opinion, they got themselves kicked off almost every discussion forum, including this one. I honestly doubt that person will realise their initial investment on the initial purchase, and then trade - for a number of reasons I won't get into here...
I have seen discussions like this come and go. We are numismatists and die-hard collectors here. We like die clashes, obverse types, coins with cool eye appeal, coins with mystery dots on them, error coins and crazy toning. We buy coins, expensive or otherwise, because we like them, and are driven to find the best (registry sets) or for sake of completeness of a series. The return on our investment comes into the time and knowledge we invest in our own coins. Our opinions matter little to anyone who dives into coins strictly for profit. That said, I could care less about the 1921 50-cent...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
08/18/2012 11:53 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
372 Posts |
Do I smell frustration for the obsession ?
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Previously Banned Member
66 Posts |
Negative or positive I appreciate opinions.
SPP:
We all have a passion for different coins me it is the 1921's...please feel free not to read my posts if they annoy you that much...some other people like talking about other things than the same old same old. some people actually like the coins at the top of the market....you can write about some boring coin and I will just not bother opening your subject. that is been mature and respectful. I could care less what happened to some other collector from Ottawa-Gatineau on this site...I have the RIGHT to talk about what I enjoy on this site AS YOU DO about what you enjoy.
By the way I am not frustrated just want you to understand freedom of topics on this site.
Edited by 1921
08/19/2012 12:03 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
Everyone with a 1921 has gotten it slabbed or put in a flip? I know a few collectors who bought one and cracked it out. One, in particular, hates TPG holders and slabs... that same collector also owns the only 1911 silver dollar, I honestly don't know if he cracked open THAT slab.... I would imagine the pop reports are fairly accurate. This is not a coin to try the "crack out and resubmit game with"... "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
08/19/2012 7:45 pm
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
By the way I am not frustrated just want you to understand freedom of topics on this site. Then you understand perfectly, that not everyone has to agree with you. You have countered every differing opinion on this topic, so, again, I ask you, why are you seeking validation or opinions when your own is cemented in stone? You chose to stir the pot, so deal with outcomes... By the way, why you would cut and paste the exact same post in two different threads... they are two different topics... https://goccf.com/t/127151"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
Edited by SPP-Ottawa
08/19/2012 7:43 pm
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Previously Banned Member
66 Posts |
SPP-Ottawa:
You are the only one that continues to want trouble...I not like you will be the better man and act my age and respect people here. You should learn to let go!! You do not own this site and you do not own what we can write and not write. You should learn to be at peace that will make you live longer. I read everyone's messages with respect I offer counter knowledge to see what else can be said on the subject at hand. I hope you can respect this and just leave my posts alone for others to enjoy/read.
I hope this stops here and does not go on and on and on like a mosquito trying none stop to suck blood while you are outside JUST trying to enjoy the day!!
Edited by 1921
08/19/2012 8:02 pm
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Valued Member
Canada
74 Posts |
There's quite a Matrix of information around the 21 ... and it boils down to two apparent points of view
- it's the King of Canadian coins, must have it, gotta have it, gotta show everyone else that it's gotten and drive everyone bloody nuts about it and get thrown off of the coin forums after attempting to stir up interest to unload said 1921 disc.
- who cares
Maybe you're not the same guy who drove everyone bloody nuts a couple of years ago with an obsessive need to talk about the 1921 all the bloody time. Maybe you are. End of the day if you don't really have anything interesting to say about it, I can sum all your posts up by sliding my finger along the appropriate row in the coin catalogue.
SPP hit the nail on the head in implying that you aren't really looking for a discussion because you counter every other opinion that comes up. So what are you looking for? An audience or a market?
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Replies: 31 / Views: 9,662 |
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Posted 08/18/2012 7:03 pm
