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1958 To 1970 Mint And Proof Sets.

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Pillar of the Community
United States
3540 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  6:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list
I agree with the above posters. If I had a couple extra grand....I WOULD invest in multiple mint sets and one of each proof set (silver and clad).

Believe the looooooong term investment is good.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1339 Posts
 Posted 11/12/2012  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add babysitr to your friends list
I've been investing in mint and proof sets for a couple years now....Mostly because I've been able to get them at a value price,,and did not own them before....Have noticed several collector friends that break them out asap,,to complete other coin sets...Just never thought of it from that angle,, jmkendall.....You make a very interesting point!!
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United States
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 Posted 11/12/2012  9:22 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list

Quote:
Hobbies move in cycles and fads. Once the great majority have completed their silver sets they will eventually move onto creating a high grade clad set. At that point, with demand growing; we will find there are not as many mint sets around as we thought there were.


I've long thought that people would be surprised to know just how scarce many of the coins are. Over the years they just keep getting scarcer and scarcer. Most 1969 mint sets have been destroyed and proof sets aren't fairing a great deal better. With a lot of the coins in mint sets the vast majority are highly substandard and unattractive. The combination of few remaining and poor quality would cause lots of stress on supplies if there were any demand. Of course the demand is just infintesimal. About ten companies assemble sets of things like clad quarters and sell up to 100 or 200 per year. Most of these sets will have a lot of low quality and even AU coins but the buyers aren't aware of the situation since most are not advanced collectors. But each of these collectors might someday choose to upgrade. There are also hundreds of thousands, even million, of the folders being sold for clad coins and many of these collections might someday be upgraded. The potential demand is well up in the many millions counting states quarter collectors but the supply of truly nice attractive coins is often in only four figures.

Personally I think the demand will materialize because people are nostalgic and these coins have been used for nearly half a century now. If the demand appears the supply is such that many will have to settle for lots of unattractive coins or they'll have to find nice looking specimens in only VG condition from circulation.


Quote:
It is a curious axiom these days that unless a coin is in a US Mint set holder it is not considered MS; when offered in a 2x2. One only has to look at the prices for the special sets from 82/83 to see what I mean.


Collectors have the mistaken idea that the mint and proof sets are all picked over. Actually though most sets don't get actually picked over until large numbers are assembled to be cut up. Then the picked over sets are destroyed leaving mostly nice fresh sets on the market. There just aren't very many left especially for the pre-'73 dates. Some dates are picked over for specific coins like '70 sets rarely have an unidentified smalldate any longer and SMS are picked over for cameo usually. People see poor quality and figure the nice ones are missing but in actuality these sets just weren't made very nicely. It takes a little effort to find choice specimens. It's the same thing with singles; collectors often assume these are substandard but as a rule these are actually slightly better than average. Finding Gems as singles is tough but average quality is better. Some dealers slip in AU's so you do have to learn how to tell a BU from an AU.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 11/13/2012  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list
It's not only people recovering silver from the older sets causing these to be destoyed; it's the fact that since there is no demand for the coins they have very nominal value. Many of the mint sets are simply trading at the combined value of the silver and face value of the other coins. A 1980 mint set trades at face value because it contains no silver and there are far more on the market than collectors can absorb. This leads to people cutting them up to spend the coins. For many dates this has been going on for decades. Everytime a set comes into a coin shop there's a high probability that it will be destroyed within months or a couple years. Coin shops have far more mint and proof sets coming in than they can sell so when they have too many they ship them off to the big wholsalers who cut them up. Usually a high percentage of the coins go straight into circulation.

It's been three decades now that the 1980 mint sets have been getting destroyed anytime the original buyer disposes of them. One can only imagine how few might be left after all these years. It's even worse with the older sets and the silver sets. Collectors have the attitude that these coins will always be around so they can always get some if they want them. But the fact is while the sets might actually be around for at least another century their number will be tiny and the available number of nice specimens of many coins will be tiny.

This has really already happened. It's not something that will occur someday. Already there are not nearly enough of a supply of many of these coins to supply a mass market like the number of collectors for Buffalo nickels or silver eagles. If Americans ever get nostalgic for the coins of the '60's and '70's then ex[pect big changes in the price and availability of these sets. Suddenly the number of sets coming into coin shops can slow to a trickle as more and more customers want to buy them. Instead of twenty coming in to supply the demand of one there will be twenty customers for each set that comes in. It's impossible to supply this demand since the sets are gone so most of the demand will have to be priced out of the market. It would be an entirely new paradigm.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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 Posted 11/13/2012  10:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broseph to your friends list
It's odd how low the price is. With shipping and ebay fees, I see people getting back probably around what they paid for the mint set many years ago if there is no silver.

I still don't own a mint set. Maybe I should go after an 88, my birth year?
Valued Member
United States
223 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  10:54 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aandabooks to your friends list
I have a shop that puts a lot of sets in a bargain bin. Anytime I see 65-69 sets in the bin I buy them. I've got roughly 100 sets so far for between $5.50-$7.00. I figure I'm getting a 40% half and either $.41 or $.82 in face value coins. I've even picked up SMS sets in OGP for $7.

I figure if silver goes up a bit more, I will be breaking even on the 40% and if demand for these sets go up in the future, I will have a good profit potential.
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 11/13/2012  10:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Broseph to your friends list
Wow, I wish I lived closer to a coin shop so I could do that!
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 Posted 11/13/2012  11:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cc99999 to your friends list
Personally, I have cut up and destroyed about 2,000 mint sets from 1968-1981
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 Posted 11/13/2012  11:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list
The '88 is a good date but tough work to find just the right set. It was the beginning of a falling mint set production and only 1,600,000+ were produced. They aren't too hard to find and about half of the mintage survives. Quality can just be stupendous because many of the planchets for these were burnished. This means there are large numbers of Proof Like coins though most have unattractive scratching. The Philly half dollar comes with a rotated reverse in the set about .8% of the time. You'll need to look through about 100 of these to find the two parts of an all Gem set and another twenty or so for the rr half. The Denver cents in this set are often spectacular. About 5% are nearly perfect and highly PL and about .2% look like branch mint proofs. Most of this cent comes as Gems and chGems are quite common. The nickels are tough and clean shields can be found on half dollars of both mints.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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 Posted 11/13/2012  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add acloco to your friends list
The 2009 P & D satin mint sets - less than 800k minted. 2nd lowest production of any Lincoln Cent....since introduction.

Just a thought..............
Valued Member
United States
173 Posts
 Posted 11/13/2012  11:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add WashQuartJesse to your friends list
I bought rolls of 69 p mint set quarters that were cut apart for the silver when the melt value exploded. The mint sets were bought in huge quantities, cut apart for the 40% halves, and the rest were sold in rolls to fatten profits. There's no question these sets will explode in value down the road. I really don't care what happend though, I just want to find my darn quarter. I usually find 2 or 3 64's and maybee a borderline 65 per 40 count roll.
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 Posted 11/14/2012  02:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add perfessor to your friends list
I always wondered why occasionally you would find a proof coin in change or a roll. I used to think they were spent accidentally. Now I guess they were actually intentionally put into circulation. I would still keep it if I found one, just because it was proof, even if it is impaired.

It also amazes me that dealers would sell rolls of proof coins. That is a lot of broken up sets.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2272 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2012  4:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list

Quote:
I always wondered why occasionally you would find a proof coin in change or a roll. I used to think they were spent accidentally. Now I guess they were actually intentionally put into circulation. I would still keep it if I found one, just because it was proof, even if it is impaired.

It also amazes me that dealers would sell rolls of proof coins. That is a lot of broken up sets.


I'd wager close to 90% of proof coins in circulation are intentionally released by dealers because they are culls. Customers demand almost perfect proofs but as many as 10% (usually <5%) of the proof set coins can be substandard. These coins are spent. The mint set coins can be found as well but they blend into the coins in circulation so are much harder to see. But I have seen heavily worn coins in circulation with mint set crimping damage and there's a tendency to see to see high grade, high quality, examples of dates where the mint set has recently fallen in price. Proof and mint sets tend to get cut up when the price falls or the price of silver increases.

One major wholesaler brags of filling up three dumpsters every week with the packaging for mint products and primarily mint and proof sets. The older sets are not nearly so common as people assume.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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3755 Posts
 Posted 11/14/2012  8:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add smokeriderdon to your friends list
The old attitude overwhelmingly demonstrated by dealers doing all the things mentioned above is why the price is still down.

The highest number of mint sets sold is 2.9 million for the 1981 set.
Highest number of sets sold for prof sets is 4.1 million for the 76 set.

So given those numbers, and the fair assumption that a minimum of half of all of these sets have been destroyed means that they should be pricing out at least 3 times the going rate. So long as all these old fart dealers that can't manage to evolve their thinking out of the 70's keep fostering this line of thinking, the price will likely stay down. But I tell you this, when that effect IS overcome, watch out. The prices will shoot through the roof like a Minuteman.
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 Posted 11/15/2012  09:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list
I agree that a lot of the cause of the low prices is inertia. But sonce 2008 there has been another reason as well; the poor economy. The weakness in the economy causes lower prices by masking the increase in the demand. Many middle class people are hurting and these are the people who own the raw sets after buying them from the mint. Each time a house is foreclosed or another middle manager laid off there is a good chance any mint sets in the house or the possession of the individual will be sold. Demand is so poor that this relatively small increase in supply will swamp it.

If you look at the prices of the sets in the last few years you'll see there's far less pressure on the pre-73 dates. This is because such high percentages of these are gone that relatively few are coming onto the market.

I believe that when the economy picks up the mint and proof sets will be one of the very first places it will be seen. The demand might not go up much but the supply will drop a lot and not be sufficient to keep up with even the low demand.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
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